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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,


A couple of times in the last week key in, normal lights on dash no immobilizer etc. and turn with nothing lights stay on, on the dash but no attempt to start.

On both occasions the car started 10-15 mins later, once was the first start in the am and the second time after the school run so started fine drove to school sat for 20 mins then nothing and started ok after 5-10 mins. Starting to get cold here so am hoping its related to that.

I think its the original battery so am going to replace it but am wondering if it could be something more as there is no dimming of lights in the car, clicking or attempt to engage the starter motor when the key is turned.
 

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Unlikely to be the battery.
More likely to be a problem with the transmission range switch.
Next time it wont crank try moving the shifter to the 'N' position to see if the engine cranks over when the transmission is in neutral.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys, its the OHs car and I asked about the shifter and she thinks it might not of been in Park when trying to start the car not sure how we've had it this long and one of us wasn't aware it wouldn't start in gear so fingers crossed thats all it was.
 

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Sometimes it can be due to corrosion
Try cleaning the battery terminals and grounding strap under the battery
Don't forget to clean the bolt and chassis of the grounding strap

If you clean the cables and terminals then it will eliminate it from being a possible cause.
Then if you have to troubleshoot then you can be in a better position to find the real issue

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
So a starting problem has resurfaced :( It's happened to me now a couple of times and the car is cranking OK(Not 100% sure if this was the case before as it happened to my OH but I suspect it was) just not starting, both times I shifted from Park to Neutral and back and it started but am not sure if this was a coincidence or not. Seems to happen when the car is warm and can be fine for days/weeks then happen several times over a couple of days. Just got my code reader back from a long term loan so will stick it on later and see if it pulls anything. Seen a couple of videos online the only difference is mine isn't keyless but is the 2.2 Premium auto . Similar to this video
 

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Most likely coincidence that is started after shifting to neutral. If it cranks then it should have all that it needs from the gear shift position to start. That's going to be a tough one. Ideally it would fail and stay failed. When it fixes itself in one or to cranking attempts....Things like codes really are not going to do anything but point you in a general direction. It may have to get worse before it gets better or if it cannot be diagnosed because it fixes itself....Might have to make a best guess at a component. Been there. This really sucks because you lose faith in the vehicle because it just might strand you, yet you need it to strand you to accurately diagnose.....
 

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Your car is has a conventional ignition switch?
If that's the case keep an eye on the immobilizer warning light. It should come on whenever you turn the ignition on. If it doesn't come on the engine will crank but never fire.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Yeah has the old school insert key and turn as opposed to the button. It happened again tonight when the OH was out and I asked her to take pics of the dash lights when trying to start so will see got when she gets in.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So my scanner will only do ODB for the Santa Fe so no codes being shown there am going to try update it and see if it helps as its running a 2013 version. The pic didn't show anything out of the ordinary the immobilizer light was solid as it is when the car starts. Does anyone know if a specific reader can pull codes from Hyundai ECUs? Do I need a mod to edit the thread title? Its not really accurate anymore.
 

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When it fails to start check that there is an engine speed displayed on your scan tool data list during crank.
Also check that enough fuel pressure is building up in the rail to allow the injectors to start firing. You need at least 1V output from the rail pressure sensor, which I think equates to about 300 bar/4,300 psi. If the pressure is lower than that the PCM wont start injecting fuel which obviously results in a non start.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Will try keep the scanner handy, problem is its her car not mine so I only drive it weekends if at all. Happened again today when I had it and the engine was cold so that has no affect and shifting from Park to Neutral had no effect either as expected. I did notice that while turning over the rev counter was up to the first mark so 250 rpm does this mean engine speed is being registered?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Have ruled out it being a key issue now too, said I'd use the spare today just in case and the same problem presented itself, so far for me every time its happened switching off completely and removing the key has resolved but again this could just be coincidence. Am going to try find fuel rail pressure on the scan tool am I right in thinking it should build once the key is turned to on? If it is a pressure issue whats the cause the fuel pump? Dirty fuel filter?
 

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am I right in thinking it should build once the key is turned to on?
The high pressure pump is driven by the engine, so pressure wont build until the engine is cranking over.

tnegun said:
If it is a pressure issue whats the cause the fuel pump? Dirty fuel filter?
It could be either of those, or the fuel might be leaking out of the rail and returning to the tank.

When was the last time your fuel filter was replaced?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I've attached a couple of pics fuel pressure seems to bounce around a bit. The first pic is the key at the on position before cranking, the second pic is just idling would this be normal. Typically I've only got it to reproduce the issue once and the the fuel pressure never went above 500 when cranking, when it starts it jumps to 30000+ . We've only had the car 6 months but the last full Hyundai service was 2 years ago so I guess the filter would be due a change by now. I swopped out the air filters myself last week and the we're manky the pollen looked much older than two years.
 

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The first pic is the key at the on position before cranking, the second pic is just idling would this be normal.
Yeah.

Look through the available data pids and see if you can find one for the pressure sensor output voltage. That's the best one to use for a starting issue. See what voltage the sensor is output during crank when the engine fails to start.

If you suspect the air filters weren't replaced at the last service it's unlikely the much more expensive fuel filter would have been. It would be worth replacing it now. With any luck that will cure the problem but if not your not wasting your money because it's a service item that would need replacing anyway. It certainly wont make matters any worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the replies, they've been very informative. I'm away with work for a few day so it will be next weekend before I get to look at this again. Will have a look and see if I can find the pressure sensor voltage output. I was going to do the oil change myself but think I'll book it in now and see what the garage makes of the problem. Do you think an Indi could sort it it or would it need to be a main dealer?
 

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Do you think an Indi could sort it it or would it need to be a main dealer?
It's an intermittent fault so it's gonna be a challenge regardless of who gets the job of diagnosing it.

From what I read on the forums here, most main dealers aren't too interested in diagnosing intermittent faults like this. I've read quite a few posts from folk who have taken their car to the dealer for some intermittent issue and the dealer has said they couldn't reproduce the fault so couldn't fix it. I'm sure they still charge you for not being able to fix it though.

If you can find a good indi diesel specialist in your area I think they'd be more likely to get to the bottom of it than a Hyundai dealer would.
 

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I had the exact same issue here in the UK. I have the 2.2 diesel unit, manual with the starter button. I would hit the button it would crank and you could tell there was no issue with the battery power. It was almost as if the immobiliser was stopping it firing up. it would occur every 4 weeks or so and sometimes it would fail to start once and others it would take 3 or so attempts. I filmed in on my iPhone to take in to the dealer.


I took mine in for a dealer service in November and sent them the video file but at the time I was in the technician was standing at the desk so I explained to him. Without any hesitation he said it's a faulty relay not clicking over (can't remember which part exactly but it may have been the fuel relay) and told the receptionist to order the part there and then under warranty. He said he'd seen it before. Since the fix 3 months ago I've had no repeat.


cmc20
 
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