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Discussion Starter #1
When Hyundai releases the 2011 Hybrid Sonata, there are going to be tax incentives of ~$3000 for the first 60,000 units (I think this is correct with current legislation). With this tax incentive, basically a rebate if you buy late in the year, what impact will it have on the price of current 2011 models. I cannot see a $28k Limited and a guesstimated $28k similarly equipped hybrid compete at the same price. The hybrid will already have a $3000 tax credit.

I am getting a new care late this year, early next year. The only way I pull the trigger this year is if there are great incentives/deals. Once are one car is paid off is when I start looking. Right now, I am primarily focused on the Hyundai Sonata SE, Hybrid Sonata, Sonata Limited, and 2012 Ford Focus. My primary needs in order are Safety, fuel efficiency, and styling. I know the grill on the hybrid is blah, but ~40MPGs is nothing to be laughed at. That efficiency would save me $75-$100 a month in gas. The reason I am considering the new Ford Focus is MyFord Touch, European design, and ~40mpg on the highway.
 

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Don't hybrids carry a premium usually even with the tax credit factored in? Haven't really checked, but check the difference between a Camry, Fusion, or Altima Hybrid vs. gas and I would expect the Sonata to be about the same (difference wise?).
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I know its a Hyundai forum, but when you compare the features I am looking for and they are as good as the Sonata for less, it makes it an option. The 2012 Focus will be roughly 30/40 on mileage, approaching the size of the mid-size sedan, at a lower price point. A lot of information still needs to come out, but hybrid mileage and European design will make it a huge success in the US.
 

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QUOTE (BigRedNole @ May 6 2010, 08:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=320143
I know its a Hyundai forum, but when you compare the features I am looking for and they are as good as the Sonata for less, it makes it an option. The 2012 Focus will be roughly 30/40 on mileage, approaching the size of the mid-size sedan, at a lower price point. A lot of information still needs to come out, but hybrid mileage and European design will make it a huge success in the US.
I'm coming from a Focus, and am looking forward to finally getting the euro-spec one here, believe me. For the way I drive, and the gas mileage, as a single-person commuter, its perfect. But its not in the same class as the new Sonata. The Sonata wins on interior quality, safety, power, included technology, warranty, resale value, and ROOM. I have a newborn, so safety and ROOM are much more important to me all of a sudden. This Sonata is about as roomy as a 4-door Charger, and other large sedans, while bringing in Compact car gas mileage.

The Hyundai comparable to the Focus is the Elantra and Touring. I say 'comparable' though the Focus blows the Elantra away. The ONLY thing the Elantra excells at are price (for the sedan) and interior room (for the Touring). The Touring even beats most CUVs for interior room, the only reason i'm looking at it despite the anemic engine. However, if you like to drive, nothing you are looking at is gonna touch the experience of the Mazda3-clone, rally-race-inspired 2012 Focus, assuming they put a decent engine in. I think that the Sonatas weight is a tough advantage to match though, and with some tweaking it could be a pretty mean handling machine with a very nice power/weight ratio.

FIRST I would rate the priorities that these cars strongly address: Amenities and Tech (Sonata) or Driving Experience (Focus). Do you wanna cruise down the highway to work at 65mph enjoying your leather, nav, bluetooth mp3 player, etc? Or take turns on the backroads at 65mph? As for the three priorities you mention, I feel the Sonata excells in Safety, both are tied in styling (subjective), and fuel efficiency is going to Focus. Ford seems to be looking at the Focus like Hyundai looks at the Sonata: a bread-and-butter volume profit machine that they will be paid back on by making the best machine they can for the lowest price possible. I would not hesitate to buy either.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
mostholycerebus,
I get where you are coming from and that is exactly why I am considering the Sonata SE. I really need to test drive one and look at them. I am in the same boat as you I think. It is primarily a commuter car to work for 70 miles a day. I do pick my daughter up now and then. Her safety is #1, my safety #2. After that it is mpg, styling, and comfort.
 

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I highly doubt that the Focus will be much cheaper. I actually had a Fiesta pre-ordered (but couldn't wait till summer for a new car) and that car was $18k+ already (I think it tops out at right around $20k). The Focus will be at least several grand more than that (I am guessing).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the info. I will not be getting a new vehicle until the end of this year or early next year. I will have many more options to evaluate and one car will be paid off by then. The Sonata Hybrid will be out with pricing including the tax credit. That may be a viable option. As for the price of the Focus, I expect fully loaded to be near $24-$25k. I do not need fully loaded on any car I purchase. I would venture my estimate for any car will be around $22k-$24k out the door.
 

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QUOTE (mostholycerebus @ May 6 2010, 10:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=320171
The Hyundai comparable to the Focus is the Elantra and Touring. I say 'comparable' though the Focus blows the Elantra away. The ONLY thing the Elantra excells at are price (for the sedan) and interior room (for the Touring).

I guess you havent seen this around lately:




Its the upcoming new Elantra.
 

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Another idea, if you don't care about warranty, is grabbing a cheap Elantra and adding mods. You could prolly get a really nice aftermarket handling kit (shocks, sway bars, etc) and add a turbo for $1500-$2000. If you don't hit it all the time, a reliable NOS kit would be even cheaper.

QUOTE (ConceptVBS @ May 7 2010, 10:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=320772
I guess you havent seen this around lately:

I visit the Hyundai dealer across the street about once a week, and no, I haven't seen that on the lot yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the info. I will be watching for incentives that will get te price down on the limited model to where I can afford it. The SE was nice and I would love to go that route, but the partial leather I do not like. I would have to see how the cloth seats are in the GLS, but I think the Limited may be what I eventually decide on.
 

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If safety is primary for you, I'd suggest you take off the Focus. A compact/mid size car is no match for a mid/large no matter how "strong" its safety cage is. You cant beat the laws of physics.
 

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Is this still true? There has been a lot of debate about the tax credit and how it works.

I believe the Hybrid Tax Credit was extended for 2011, therefore shouldn't the Sonata Hybrid be eligible for the full $3000?
 

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The way the tax credit works is that you get credited for paying that amount in taxes so its like they took it out of your pay. So even if you don't owe any money for taxes you still get the full amount back. So basically you get the full amount no matter what. The only bad thing is that you have to wait till the end of the year. The Sonata Hybrid qualifies for $1300 credit. Now the bad new is that that tax credit has expired but there is a glimer of hope. A senator from Michigan has introduced a bill to extend it till 2014. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dr...electric-cars/1.
 

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QUOTE (Marco M @ Feb 11 2011, 02:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=401239
The way the tax credit works is that you get credited for paying that amount in taxes so its like they took it out of your pay. So even if you don't owe any money for taxes you still get the full amount back. So basically you get the full amount no matter what. The only bad thing is that you have to wait till the end of the year. The Sonata Hybrid qualifies for $1300 credit. Now the bad new is that that tax credit has expired but there is a glimer of hope. A senator from Michigan has introduced a bill to extend it till 2014. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dr...electric-cars/1.
I never understood why the tax credit was listed as $1300 instead of the standard $3400 which is the initial hybrid tax credit if less then 50,000 units have been sold.

Thanks for the article, i'd heard about that before, but who knows when and IF this bill will ever pass. The Obama admin loves electric cars, hybrid cars are old news for them and don't make headlines
 

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QUOTE (mbyte @ Feb 11 2011, 02:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=401241
I never understood why the tax credit was listed as $1300 instead of the standard $3400 which is the initial hybrid tax credit if less then 50,000 units have been sold.

Thanks for the article, i'd heard about that before, but who knows when and IF this bill will ever pass. The Obama admin loves electric cars, hybrid cars are old news for them and don't make headlines

As I understand it, the city mileage based on EPA estimates doesn't qualify it for the same sized tax credit as the Prius...

Several of the other 2010 credits that haven't expired for the manufacturers included the VW TDIs, but that credit also started below the maximum.

A long laundry list of vehicles that received tax credits, and the related dates of expiration, can be found here...

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations...=203122,00.html
 

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QUOTE (tedrodgerscpa @ Feb 11 2011, 05:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=401302
As I understand it, the city mileage based on EPA estimates doesn't qualify it for the same sized tax credit as the Prius...

Several of the other 2010 credits that haven't expired for the manufacturers included the VW TDIs, but that credit also started below the maximum.

A long laundry list of vehicles that received tax credits, and the related dates of expiration, can be found here...

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations...=203122,00.html
Thanks, I've been trying to understand for ages why it didn't qualify for the maximum tax credit.

Update:
So per my correspondence with the Department of Energy, fueleconomy.gov, and Hyundai USA Corporate over the past weeks- they've all confirmed the 2011 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid WILL NOT BE ELGIBLE for the tax credit. The only part of the bill that was renewed was for electric and plug-in vehicles.
 

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QUOTE (mbyte @ Feb 11 2011, 03:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=401324
Thanks, I've been trying to understand for ages why it didn't qualify for the maximum tax credit.

Update:
So per my correspondence with the Department of Energy, fueleconomy.gov, and Hyundai USA Corporate over the past weeks- they've all confirmed the 2011 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid WILL NOT BE ELGIBLE for the tax credit. The only part of the bill that was renewed was for electric and plug-in vehicles.

Well that sucks. That extra $1300 would have been nice to pay part of the taxes.
 

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QUOTE (Marco M @ Feb 15 2011, 12:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=402550
Well that sucks. That extra $1300 would have been nice to pay part of the taxes.
We'll see how dealers are willing to haggle on this one - not sure what their mentality will be. It's a newly released car, so they may try to stick to MSRP. On the otherhand, it's an extremely late release for a 2011 model and the Turbo sells below invoice.
 
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