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About six months ago, Hyundai announced two new diesels. The 2.0 and 2.2 liter destined for the European market Tucson, Sonata, and the 2.2 liter in the Veracruz and Santa Fe. I have heard conflicting reports about the viability of the 2.2 liter motor in the US spec Santa Fe. I've heard twice that it will be coming here and one other time that it won't.

Personally, I think it's stupid we (the US market) are getting jipped on the diesel front. That 2.2 liter is rated for 170 horsepower, 321 pound feet of torque :w00t: and is probably good for 40 mpg or higher :wub: if you're nice to it on the highway. The majority of Americans have such a negative view towards diesels that it shafts the knowledgeable ones from getting an engine with great performance and great mileage without having to resort to the ho-hum driving experience of a hybrid. Even with diesel around $0.30 to $0.40 more expensive here (compared with 87 octane regular), it's still cheaper over the long run.

Does anybody else agree with me that Hyundai should bring the diesels to the states?
 

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I agree. We use our Santa Fe for towing a camper, and the diesel's combination of low-end torque and good fuel consumption would be appealing.

Are you sure about that torque rating though? 321 sounds like hamster-inches, or some other strange European system :grin:
 

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Hello,

I don't know about the emission rules on other countries, and the cost of diesel there, what are the reasons for sell and buy diesel cars , but about the actual 2.2 crdi, i think its a great engine, is obvius the difference of torque betwen this engine and gas engines (like the 2.7, or 2.4 166 hp rav4), this is my first diesel (here in panama SF 7 seat is only available for diesel engine), this car has plenty of power, remember, has 343 Nm betwen 1800-2500rpm, when the gas engines has 247NM (2.7), and 226NM (3.3)both at 4000 rpm, and the 150 cv are available at 4000, 2000 rpm before than in the gas engines, with the great fuel comsumptiom of 7l/100km(this is the most important difference between small but powered diesel and big gas guzzlers v6 or v8), in highway 100km/h at 1750 rpm in 5 gear. but is important how kms you do, and the cost of diesel, because diesel engines are more expensive. In my country almost all suv's are diesel because is less expensive than gas. If this is a nice engine, i don't know what to expect for the new R-engines, 2.0 and 2.2 l with 185 and 205 hp respectively.
 

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sorry, the 3.3 has like 326 NM, almost forget to say, the diesel dont make smoke and the engine is less audible than others gas ones, i think its due to the sound issolation, and turdo-crdi system,
 

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QUOTE (Don67 @ Mar 15 2009, 08:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=222619
Are you sure about that torque rating though? 321 sounds like hamster-inches, or some other strange European system :grin:
Ha ha ha...321 pound feet = 435.2 NM. :harhar:
 

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its correct Ilovemysantafe, the newer diesels has more than the double of torque at half rpm, dont need to press too much the gas to make the trans downshift and engine to catch 3000 rpm and then pull the car, at 2000 rpm pulls with easy.
 

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Definitely EU norms for CO2,NOx and other gases are much more difficult to keep up with than US. Just compare a "standard" 2.7V6 and 2.2CRDi in CO2 and you`ll know. 280+ vs. 178g/km.
 

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As time goes on and fuel prices rise, I really continue to doubt that I would buy another Hyundai without a diesel engine. The Germans (Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen) have all embraced clean diesels for the United States and because of that, I'm seriously considering an Audi A3 TDI (44 mpg highway and fun to drive) as my next daily driver.
 

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Everybody always wants a diesel. Till the time comes to buy one. I looked at a 2009 Jetta TDI wagon. $2300 more than the gas model. Actually even more. Could get a much better deal on a non diesel.

We don't drive nearly enough justify that. Maintenance is higher too.
 

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QUOTE (trucker @ Jun 24 2009, 05:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=244479
Everybody always wants a diesel. Till the time comes to buy one. I looked at a 2009 Jetta TDI wagon. $2300 more than the gas model. Actually even more. Could get a much better deal on a non diesel.

We don't drive nearly enough justify that. Maintenance is higher too.


Doesn't keep people around here from buying Camry Hybrids over their gas-only models or a Prius over the Corolla. And a diesel doesn't need a $2,000 battery replacement in five or so years.
 

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QUOTE (trucker @ Jun 24 2009, 08:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=244479
Everybody always wants a diesel. Till the time comes to buy one. I looked at a 2009 Jetta TDI wagon. $2300 more than the gas model. Actually even more. Could get a much better deal on a non diesel.

We don't drive nearly enough justify that. Maintenance is higher too.
I had a 1982 Peugeot diesel and maintenance was less than gasoline, now with all the technofluff I bet it would be even less.
 

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A bit of :eek:fftopic: , but I want to say something important. The VW unit injector (pump-duse) diesel engine is anything but clean. It is almost banned in Europe now due to the high levels of contamination caused by it. The new Common Rail system that Hyundai,MB,BMW,Honda,Peugeot,Opel,GM and others use is far better in ecological terms. In Europe the manufacturer with the best diesel engines is PSA Peugeot-Citroen. One of the first to utilize the Common Rail system. And the first in the world to put a DPF. I don`t know why French and Italian cars are not sold in the USA and Canada,but can say that from that the two countries only loose. The EuroNCAP crash agency has far higher criteria for the 5 stars crash rating. So a Peugeot 308 with five stars rating is far safer than a same class US crash tested car with 5 stars rating. I think that there was a statement of the Bush cabinet that said that French and Italian manufacturers supported terrorists and their cars are banned for the USA and Canada. Well,it`s 100% clear that this is false,but many of the Bush cabinet`s things were not wright. But lets not get in politics and talk about cars. :)
 

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QUOTE (Dino Kirov @ Jul 26 2009, 02:51 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=251345
A bit of :eek:fftopic: , but I want to say something important. The VW unit injector (pump-duse) diesel engine is anything but clean. It is almost banned in Europe now due to the high levels of contamination caused by it. The new Common Rail system that Hyundai,MB,BMW,Honda,Peugeot,Opel,GM and others use is far better in ecological terms. In Europe the manufacturer with the best diesel engines is PSA Peugeot-Citroen. One of the first to utilize the Common Rail system. And the first in the world to put a DPF. I don`t know why French and Italian cars are not sold in the USA and Canada,but can say that from that the two countries only loose. The EuroNCAP crash agency has far higher criteria for the 5 stars crash rating. So a Peugeot 308 with five stars rating is far safer than a same class US crash tested car with 5 stars rating. I think that there was a statement of the Bush cabinet that said that French and Italian manufacturers supported terrorists and their cars are banned for the USA and Canada. Well,it`s 100% clear that this is false,but many of the Bush cabinet`s things were not wright. But lets not get in politics and talk about cars. :)
Dino,

Stop spreading rumors. First you said that Russian is derived from Bulgarian. While they have common predecessors - Proto-Slavic (all Slavic languages originate from one root) and Old Church Slavonic, especially - the modern versions of both languages are as similar to each other as third cousins. Bulgarian was influenced by Turkish, and Russian has a very interesting history of development.

Now you related the Bush administartion to Pegeout's decision to leave the U.S. market. Please read the following three links first - they tell a true, more or less, story:
There were even some predictions by industry analysts that companies such as Citroen, Peugeot, and Renault would cease to exist in the second half of the 90s. The main reason for that was a relatively high number of defects in their cars. European cars in general have a lot of defects, even Mercedes or VW/Audi. They can be cool, beautiful, well-engineered, fun to drive... but defect-free. Also consider the differences in tastes: The U.S. buyers are more concered with price, quality, cost of ownership, less with the looks and image (that's why the U.S. automakers created the greatest number of ugly or plain-looking cars).

Now add certification (legal requirement and market adaptation - I still cannot figure out that Canadian rear side marker requirement) and marketing expenses and expenses to establish and mainatin a dealer network to that... Parts, logistcs, service... French and Italian (FIAT - Fix It Again, Tony) automakers lost the U.S. market, and are making some uncertain steps to gain it (Fiat buys part of Chrysler; only Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Maserati - no mass-market Italian cars - are sold in the U.S.). We may see Renault entering other markets via the Nissan-Renault aliance, but unlikely... Citroen's designs are eye-catching, but very odd and controversial, so it is unlikely to enter the U.S. market. Anyway, the point is that it is not enough just to design and build a car - selling and service activities is the killer.

On the other hand, the auto industry is full of mysteries: Why are some brands sold in some markets and not the others? Why was Chevrolet not sold in Europe? Maybe, not to compete with Opel... Why did GM sell Opels under the Saturn brand in the U.S? I don't know...
 

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QUOTE (Dino Kirov @ Jul 25 2009, 07:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=251345
I don`t know why French and Italian cars are not sold in the USA and Canada,but can say that from that the two countries only loose.
Fiat & Citroen refused to produce cars to suit northamerican needs & taste and also to make the front bumper withstand a 5mph impact, citroen in particular. Fiat used a type of steel which in contact with salt made the medal disintegrate thereby producing a biodegradable car, (ahead of its time) so buyers left in droves. I've owned a Fiat 124 for 1 year, fun car, but it already sported rust marks so I sold it.
 

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About the terrorists thing. Well that was a joke posted a few years back in a french forum. The fact why these cars are not sold in the USA and Canada is that they are small and with small engines. The biggest engine in PSA Peugeot-Citroen is a 3.0 V6 twin turbo diesel. The biggest petrol engine is just 3 liters and is V6 too. Also the French and Italian have got about 3-4 limousines so they won`t suit America`s markets well. Even though, Peugeot has announced that is making plans to return to the US market with few big cars and some of the above mentioned 3.0 V6 diesels. But why does the Peugeot site state that any Peugeot or Citroen that is been imported in the USA or Canada will be sealed and returned to Europe??? I mean can`t I go around the US with my 307 SW??? In fact Peugeot and Citroen had a good market share in the US until 1993 or something. Oh and all the PSA and FIAT cars have bumpers that withstand crashes up to 10kph. Since Peugeot`s Pikes Peak victory the US have a bad look on Frenches. :D
 

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QUOTE (Dino Kirov @ Jul 26 2009, 11:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=251495
About the terrorists thing. Well that was a joke posted a few years back in a french forum. The fact why these cars are not sold in the USA and Canada is that they are small and with small engines. The biggest engine in PSA Peugeot-Citroen is a 3.0 V6 twin turbo diesel. The biggest petrol engine is just 3 liters and is V6 too. Also the French and Italian have got about 3-4 limousines so they won`t suit America`s markets well. Even though, Peugeot has announced that is making plans to return to the US market with few big cars and some of the above mentioned 3.0 V6 diesels. But why does the Peugeot site state that any Peugeot or Citroen that is been imported in the USA or Canada will be sealed and returned to Europe??? I mean can`t I go around the US with my 307 SW??? In fact Peugeot and Citroen had a good market share in the US until 1993 or something. Oh and all the PSA and FIAT cars have bumpers that withstand crashes up to 10kph. Since Peugeot`s Pikes Peak victory the US have a bad look on Frenches. :D
Don't get me wrong - I think that Peugeot 306, 307 (307 SW definitely, 308 maybe), 406, and 607 are beautiful cars, despite the saying "Рено и Пежо - говно, а Фиат - их брат!".

The official Peugeot site just says that Peugeot cars are not certified for the U.S. market (with all the consequences of that). You, probably, will be able to drive your 307 SW in the U.S. (by going through a lot of trouble - older (classic) vehicles do not meet the current standards, yet allowed to be driven - and filing some paperwork that the vehicle enters the U.S. temporarily), but you will not be able to sell it there as a street-legal vehicle.

Maybe, the Peugeot-Mitsubishi alliance will help to reintroduce Peugeot back to the U.S. market (but currently it only rebadged Mitsubishi Outlander as Peugeot 4007, Citroen C-Crosser, and their brother Renault Koleos - the ugliest crossover ever). However, we are talking about the user choice <-> platform unification and user choice <-> market positioning dilemmas (and market share redistributiong - taking from Mitsubishi and giving to Peugeot). Sort of like GM had to many brands and rebadged its cars with no clear distinction, or like I believe that there was no room for Veracruz or Genesis in Hyundai's line-up (too close to Santa Fe and Azera (Grandeur) respectively).

And the issue is not related to the engine size - Americans buy Mercedeses with the 2.3-liter compressor engine or Mazdas with the 2.3-liter turbocharged engine (yet naturally, they prefer large, naturally-aspirated engines). The engine size is an issue in Europe - taxes are charged based on the engine size in many countries, but not in the U.S. (MPG is more applicable - if you can get 25 MPG from a 6-liter engine by means of some miraculous technology, then size does not matter). Even the vehicle size is not an issue here (many of Peugeot cars are quite large), unlike Hyundai's decision not to sell Getz/Click in the U.S.

Again, it is all about the cost of entry (cost of presence) and dealer network. SsangYong's vehicles, for example, are not sold in the U.S. also.
 

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QUOTE (McLarrick @ Jul 27 2009, 12:54 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=251516
Don't get me wrong - I think that Peugeot 306, 307 (307 SW definitely, 308 maybe), 406, and 607 are beautiful cars, despite the saying "Рено и Пежо - говно, а Фиат - их брат!".

The official Peugeot site just says that Peugeot cars are not certified for the U.S. market (with all the consequences of that). You, probably, will be able to drive your 307 SW in the U.S. (by going through a lot of trouble - older (clasic) vehicles do not meet the current standards, yet allowed to be driven - and filing some paperwork that the vehicle enters the U.S. temporarily), but you will not be able to sell it there as a street-legal vehicle.

Maybe, the Peugeot-Mitsubishi alliance will help to reintroduce Peugeot back to the U.S. market (but currently it only rebadged Mitsubishi Outlander as Peugeot 4007, Citroen C-Crosser, and their brother Renault Koleos - the ugliest crossover ever). However, we are talking about the user choice <-> platform unification and user choice <-> market positioning dilemmas (and market share redistributiong - taking from Mitsubishi and giving to Peugeot). Sort of like GM had to many brands and rebadged its cars with no clear distinction, or like I believe that there was no room for Veracruz or Genesis in Hyundai's line-up (too close to Santa Fe and Azera (Grandeur) respectively).

And the issue is not related to the engine size - Americans buy Mercedeses with the 2.3-liter compressor engine or Mazdas with the 2.3-liter turbocharged engine (yet naturally, they prefer large, naturally-aspirated engines). Even the vehicle size is not an issue here (many of Peugeot cars are quite large), unlike Hyundai's decision not to sell Getz/Click in the U.S.

Again, it is all about the cost of entry (cost of presence) and dealer network. SsangYong's vehicles, for example, are not sold in the U.S. also.

I agree about the 4007 and the C-Crosser that was a mistake from PSA to take the Outlander platform. But they didn`t want to waste any money. Now they are developing their own SUVs. Like the Peugeot 3008, Peugeot 5008 van and the Citroen C4 cross. The 307 SW definately isn`t rated as a classic vehicle, because it was first made in the 2003. The last car was manufactured in 2008. So I don`t think it is a classic one. :)

Also I want to say that PSA (includes the brands Peugeot and Citroen) have nothing to do with Renault,which is in a group with Dacia and Nissan.

Let`s move to PM,because we made the topic a bit SPAMy.
 
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