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Discussion Starter #1
Car is getting spark, used starting fluid still nothing, checked all fuses, fuel pump runs when turning car to on position, tested ckps threw scan tool reads rpm while cranking. Any ideas? Im completely lost.
Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Timing belt about 30k ago, ran rough until it warmed up a couple times before it just stopped starting
 

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Crank, no start

Would check spark again to confirm
Then spray starting fluid into in take plenum
If still won't start and all fuses good
I would suspect air flow, compression, timing and/or exhaust clog

Which to check first would depend on what tools you have and what is easiest to do
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I'm going to rent a compression tester tomorrow. I did open the butterfly while spraying bursts of starting fluid and nothing had intake off spraying into throttle body. On my ckps the center pin on harness is only giving 1.3v what would cause low voltage to this pin? checked spark at plug side of wire and has strong spark. I am going to pull the o2 out to see if it makes a difference. Ty again
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Compression on all cylinders is around 150 and it is 30 degrees out. Timing looks to be good. I really think it is the harness only giving 1.3v for ckps and cps harness
 

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Presume no codes. How many miles are on the vehicle? Gives us a ballpark for what could be mileage related.

Generally, if you have compression, timing, and spark it will at least TRY to run on the starting fluid. Not well, but at least sputter.
 

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"Ran rough until it warmed up ..."

Man, I just had a flashback to 1984. Pontiac Fiero, ran like crap, smoking, backfire, hard to start. Once warmed up it ran just about normal. It was the temperature sending unit had sorta failed. It was still sending signal to the ECM, but the voltage indicated the temperature was way colder than it really was. So, ECM was dumping fuel into the intake to the point that it caused a small fire in the throttle body. Never set a code, but this was OBDI.

If something similar is happening here, the starting fluid would not get it going because the injectors would already be flooding the engine. You might be able to tell by smelling for gas fumes in the exhaust after cranking. I know this is rather bizarre, but hey, it was a Fiero! I will see if I can find resistance measurements for the sending unit.
 

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P0118 would be the code if the ECT sensor fails, and the behavior of failure is what you are describing. If it hasn't failed, but has just "shifted" the range, it can throw off the timing, fuel mix, etc for the ambient conditions without setting a code. I cannot find the output/temp table, but did find that this sensor can malfunction if the coolant is rusty/contaminated. One of the tests that you can do is to use a hair dryer to heat the sensor up (even though the engine is cold) and see if the engine tries to fire off. The sensor should be just below or near the thermostat housing.

If your scan tool will allow, see what temperature is reported by the ECT sensor compared to current ambient. Since the engine hasn't run, should be the same or very close to it.
 

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If the temperature sensor has failed the scan tool data list will tell you regardless of whether a code has been logged or not.
Also, the cooling fan normally runs as soon as the ignition is switched on as a fail safe measure when the sensor fails.

Did you try removing the upstream O2 sensor from the exhaust to see if that gets it started?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Problem is battery was dead and some mechanic took the resisters out of fuse box and out them in backwards so I'm not pulling any codes. And I have live data on my scan tool and rpm works fine. But like I said the ckps and cps harness give me 12v on one terminal 1.3v to center terminal and ground on the last one. I'm thinking my problem lies in that low voltage problem? I'll let you know how many miles it has soon. Ty all again
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If the temperature sensor has failed the scan tool data list will tell you regardless of whether a code has been logged or not.
Also, the cooling fan normally runs as soon as the ignition is switched on as a fail safe measure when the sensor fails.

Did you try removing the upstream O2 sensor from the exhaust to see if that gets it started?
I did not remove upstream o2 yet but will try that tomorrow! Ty
 

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If the temperature sensor has failed the scan tool data list will tell you regardless of whether a code has been logged or not.
Also, the cooling fan normally runs as soon as the ignition is switched on as a fail safe measure when the sensor fails.

Did you try removing the upstream O2 sensor from the exhaust to see if that gets it started?
Yeah, I have seen that when the sensor goes full scale high or low, but they can also just read way wrong but still within normal limits. That really screws with the engine management system.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Could anyone come up with a reason or a fix of why I'm pulling 1.3v on the center wire that should have 5v?
 

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The two outside ones are power and ground
The middle is the reading of the sensor
It reports back to the ECU the speed of the crank
If the engine was not running then 1.3 volts would point to something pulling down the voltage
Another sensor that may be sharing the same 5 volts??
 

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Yeah, I have seen that when the sensor goes full scale high or low, but they can also just read way wrong but still within normal limits. That really screws with the engine management system.
Well, if it's failed but still within normal limits then it can't really screw with the engine management that much. That type of failure usually just causes some idle speed issues. I've never heard of it causing an engine not to start.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
fuel pump runs when turning car to on position
Have you confirmed that the fuel pump runs DURING CRANK?

Well the cps and ckps brother have 1.3v
Are these voltage measurement being taken with the sensors disconnected from the harness, or with the sensors plugged in?
This is taken with sensors disconnected and probing the harness.
As for fuel during crank I believe it is getting it have to check that data port to see. But it don't do anything when sprayed with starter fluid
 
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