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#11 Old 02-14-2012, 09:16 PM
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I just bought a 2012 Sonata with the MT. I had read some scathing reviews of the manual transmission, but bought one anyway. Hyundai and Kia both have a history of putting in a "CDV - Clutch Delay Valve" in the slave cylinder. I guess the thought is that it makes it easier to drive for those who are new to a MT. But for those of us who have driven them for decades, it is frustrating. No amount of modulation can seem to help. I have seen a fix on old Tiburons where you can remove the valve from the slave cylinder, but I do not know for sure if the YF has the CDV... I am meaning to take it apart to see, but haven't had time. Also I feel like there is a dead spot in the throttle pedal just above idle, I have seen some threads on a Kia forum about how to adjust the throttle pedal to aleviate the issue. The combination of these two issues can make things pretty frustrating. Anyone know of a short shift kit?
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#12 Old 02-15-2012, 12:08 AM
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Some months ago, after reading posts on the kia forum about the manual requiring excessive amounts of pedal effort to modulate the clutch, I had to test drive one for myself.

I wasn't able to find an optima close enough to drive, but did locate a sonata 6spd. Given the similar nature of the two cars, I didn't think there was any difference in the driveline of the two.

After my brief (20 min?) test drive, the only conclusion I can make is the folks making the above claim must be used to driving civics or vw's that require minimal effort to operate. The pedal effort didn't seem drastically different than most other none sport car cars I've driven. The uptake felt normal for a non sports car clutch. The friction zone was larger than I what I was used to. With both my camaro and now the G, the clutch doesn't start grabbing until the last 75 or 80% off the floor. With regard to effort, the camaro in its stock form took LOTS of effort to depress. After driving that car for 15 years I was very used to the stiff clutch pedal and actually preferred it.

On the G, most owners end up either removing the clutch pedal assist spring altogether, or replacing it with a much weaker one. I opted with the second choice. Otherwise, the pedal is free to wobble with the small amount of free play present at the top of the pedal stroke (clutch completely engaged). The result is much better clutch feel/feedback. With the stock spring, it's very hard to feel when the clutch is actually starting to grab. Engagement is evident only by the car beginning to move. Also a good way to burn up the clutch if you're on an incline. With the weaker spring, the pedal feel is no longer linear, but progressive. As the pedal is released higher off the floor, the level of resistance increases. For comparison, the stock spring was rated at around 330 lb/in, the replacement, 50 lb/in. With both hands, I could barely make a deflection in the stock spring, with the latter, I can fully compress it. Here's a pic http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8373/p1020850z.jpg .

I'm guessing this clutch delay valve referenced above serves a similar function, but is placed in the hydraulic portion of the clutch system rather than the mechanical pedal. During my test drive I had no issues with stalling the car or taking off on inclines. There was a sensation of lack of feedback, and the shifter itself felt sort of rubbery - as though the shift gates were not distinctly defined.

I think it is important to have the seat in the right position so that you can fully reach both pedals and have good control when modulating the clutch. I find playing with the angle of the lower cushion can help. Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to look under the dash to see just what the clutch pedal arrangement looks like.

This is what it looks like on the g37/370z



Another view with the spring removed.




If you're still stalling, try to figure out why and compensate. If the off idle response isn't there, perhaps there are some stops that can be adjusted so the throttle doesn't need to get push as much to initiate a rpm increase.

Good luck!
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#13 Old 02-15-2012, 12:47 PM
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I feel your pain. I had my Sonata brought in from Virginia sight unseen because I only wanted a manual tranny. I am more than a little disappointed with the clutch. amazing car, but hard to drive slowly from a start.

So far in my life I have owned a 91 protege with a 5-speed. 84 VW jetta 5-speed. 98 nissan frontier 5-speed. 1973 ford bronco 3-speed(still own). 2004 dodge ram v8 5-speed. 2007 dodge ram v8 6-speed. And this car. I have some experience with a manual, and this one feels different form anything else I have ever driven. I can drive it, and dont stall out, but it has a numb feeling to it.

It is hard to feel the engage point. I removed the cover off of the engine, so you can hear it rev better. That helped some. Lowering springs helped the front to back sway during the shifts. I woudl love to know if there was a dampener inside the clutch MC.
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#14 Old 05-21-2012, 08:00 PM
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Clutch delay. Hmmm.

No wonder after almost 2 decades of rowing my gears, I can't drive my '12 Sonata as smoothly as my past cars.
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#15 Old 05-21-2012, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graham.webb89 View Post
Hm this makes me want to take out a Sonata manual just so I can feel this for myself, because I have no real problems with my manual Accent and it's my first car (therefore my first manual).
Same thing here. I have a 6 spd manual Accent too. It's one of the easiest, smooth, clutches I've ever driven. My Accent is an se, if there is any differences. Very curious.
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#16 Old 06-13-2012, 02:34 AM
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The spring is not the issue. The delay valve is not in the slave cylinder best I can tell. The slave cylinder for this car is very different than the other hyundais and Kia's that have had this issue. I am now thinking that the delay is in the clutch "regulator". What else could this be but some type of delay valve.
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#17 Old 06-13-2012, 03:06 AM
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I love my 6spd but after waiting 15k miles & changing the fluid it was still hard to get her in 1st. Sometimes I would be stuck at a light pumping the clutch pedal to get her in gear. At 80+mph u can smell the clutch burning. I had no choice I traded her in for the Turbo model. I still miss her tho.

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#18 Old 06-13-2012, 06:51 AM
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Clutch delay voodoo aside, I *HIGHLY* recommend getting a louder exhaust. At one point, I cut a big hole out of the bottom of my stock muffler because of this shifting issue. Once you can HEAR the exhaust/engine, clutch engagement becomes MUCH MUCH MUCH easier. I since put a real sport muffler on it, btw. I still have stalling problems but only when I am pounding my 1.2kw subwoofer system (and can't hear the exhaust).

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#19 Old 06-13-2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necos11 View Post
I love my 6spd but after waiting 15k miles & changing the fluid it was still hard to get her in 1st. Sometimes I would be stuck at a light pumping the clutch pedal to get her in gear. At 80+mph u can smell the clutch burning. I had no choice I traded her in for the Turbo model. I still miss her tho.
This sounds like you severely smoked the clutch at some point (ride the pedal much?) and it just gave up the ghost on you. Yours is not a typical experience I assure you. Hope you like your turbo.
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#20 Old 06-13-2012, 08:44 AM
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Yeah Necos you definitely had something wrong, that is not normal at all. I have never had any trouble getting into gear or shifting, and I haven't seen anyone else complain about that issue. Sounds like you may have had a combination of a worn clutch (was this your first manual and are you sure it was the clutch you smelled burning?) and incomplete clutch disengagement. Did you ever take it to a dealer to be checked?
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