I've cut open many Fram filters, their quality is very poor, I would NEVER use one on anyones engine.

Good for you :clap:
just look at the picture in the first post and you'll see why you are buying crap
after that read the links and you'll know for sure you are paying for crap
:thumbsup:

and BTW a rumor is just words this is a fact I have material proof right here on my desk

This post has been edited by lightningTib: Jun 24 2006, 09:03 AM

i saw the pics, and i dont see anything wrong with it.
the only things thats paper in em, is the filter element.
how its made, had how oil filters are made today on the show.
Fram was the brand.
the ends look like metal to me in those pics

the tops of the Fram filters are cardboard. I'm gonna be blunt and say I do more oil changes in a month than most people here will do in their entire life, I have cut open almost every filter on the market to see their quality, and Fram filters are junk. There is not one person in my shop who has anything good to say about their filters.

can anyone prove a fram has caused a engine failure??

when i change my oil im gonna tear appart the old filter and check its internal condition when its been used, n ot before...
ill post when i do that....

I can't prove anything other than telling you I've been told by more than one of the senior techs in my shop that they all have done engine jobs caused by Fram filters, and that Fram did have to pay for it in some cases. I know that its not very convincing but the fact that I work on cars for a living and discourage the use of their product should mean something IMO...

well guys , I am going to heed your warnings........
had my oil changed other day at canadian tire...
this am when car started it made a loud thrrrrrrrrrrrrr tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick rattle rattle sound for about 4 seconds.
Iv'e never had a problem before with motormaster filters (fram)........
i went and ordered two filters from a dealership 2 1/2 hrs away.
they said after market filters will cause a engine tick. i just wish I would have known of this sooner.
Sometimes u need to learn the harder way, thankfully its ok though :amen:

I use either Purlator filters or Mobil 1 filters when I do service on my cars. They have done a good job protecting my engines over the years.

fram is crap always has been always will be.....some one put that dead horse to rest! :amen:

Ok I know it's an Amsoil video, but it explains the differance between regular filters and synthetic filters and why the synthetic media filters better and provides more flow.

Most oil filters have filter elements made of paper and are effective down to about 40 microns. The advanced filters have composite elements made of paper, cellulose, and fiberglass, and are effective down to 15 microns or less. Typically these advanced filters also have more surface area on their elements, and therefore more capacity. To put this into perspective, 25 microns is about 1 thousandth of an inch. Below are pics of a paper element and a synthethic element expanded 50 times. In these pictures, a 30 micron particle would be about this big: o



In your motor, most parts like pistons, bearings, and bushings are set up with a clearance of 1 thousandth of an inch, so to the moving lubricated parts a 25 micron particle is as big as the oil film, and will scratch both surfaces. We don't want particulate in our engines 25 microns or bigger. Some companies claim that even particles as small as 1 to 5 microns cause premature engine wear, but I don't find the evidence on this topic to be compelling, either for or against. Anyway, you can see now that standard paper filters are marginal. The paper filters let through about 10 to 20 times as much 25 micron stuff as the synthetic filters do, and about 5 to 10 times as much 15 micron stuff.

It's not enough to ask a company to what size particle their filter is effective. Imagine a screen door with some oil on it. Obviously something the size of a golf ball or fly is simply not getting through. However, even particles which are a tenth the size of the holes sometimes don't get through - spray your screen door with a garden hose and see what comes off. Oil filters are similar, except the holes are random in size, not perfectly regular like a screen door. So, company A says "Our filters are effective down to 7 microns." What does this mean? If "effective" means "we catch 15%," well, I'm not impressed. You need an efficiency number along with the size number before you can really think you know something. No filter is 100% effective - this would require either very regular holes, which are currently impossible to mass produce, or very small holes on average, which would block too much oil flow.

Some filters, however, ARE clearly better than others. For example, Purolator makes filters in three qualities, standard, premium, and Pure One. Purolator states that their premium filters capture 97.8% @ 30 microns and 85.2% @ 20 microns. These numbers are typical of a normal paper element oil filter. The Purolator Pure One filters capture 99.8% @ 30 microns and 99.2% @ 20 microns. This means the Premium filter is letting through eleven times as many 30 micron particles as the Pure One, and eighteen times as many 20 micron particles. Clearly, the Pure One filter is doing a considerably better job of cleaning the oil than the premium filter.

The way the Pure One achieves this filtering efficiency is by combining three different types of materials in their filter: paper like everyone else to catch the big stuff, and cellulose and fiberglass fibers to fill in the "large" holes in the paper with their much finer fibers. Filters like this are now made by Purolator, Hastings (marketed as AMS), and Champion (marketed as Mobil 1 and Bosch). Accordingly, the best oil filters are the Purolator Pure One, Mobil-1, AMSOil, and Bosch. If you use one of these filters with one of the commercial synthetic oils, IMO you have the best protection money can buy.

Champion says the Bosch is a 15 micron filter, and the Mobil-1 is a 10 micron filter but gives no efficiency numbers. AMS claims their filter is effective to "7 to 10 microns," but again without any efficiency number. SAE tests would tend to indicate that the Purolator has a slight advantage in filtering over the other filters named here. Additionally, the Mobil-1 (M1-110) has excellent filter media but only 60 sq. in. surface area (less than a stock filter), vs. PureOne (PL14610) with 110 sq.in. The important thing is, all of these filters have performance at 30 microns which is far superior to a paper only filter, and all of these filters have performance at 20 microns which is also far superior to a paper filter. So, bottom line, these filters will clean your oil far better than a paper-only filter.

Be aware too, all filters have to undergo SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) tests to prove that they meet the engine manufacturer's requirements. The SAE J806 test uses a single-pass test, checking for contaminant holding capacity, size of contaminant particles trapped, and ability to maintain clean oil. As an amendment of the J806 test, the multi-pass test also looks for filter life in hours, contaminant capacity in grams, and efficiency based on weight. The efficiency of the filter is determined only by weight through gravimetric measurement of the filtered test liquid. Typical numbers for paper filter elements are 85% (single pass) and 80% (multi-pass).

A new test, the SAE J1858, provides both particle counting and gravimetric measurement to measure filter capacity and efficiency. Actual counts of contaminant particles by size are obtained every 10 minutes, both upstream (before the filter) and downstream (after the filter), for evaluation. From this data filtration ratio and efficiency for each contaminant particle size can be determined as well as dust capacity and pressure loss as a function of time. Typical numbers for paper element filters are 40% at 10 microns, 60% at 20 microns, 93% at 30 microns, and 97% at 40 microns. This means a paper filter passes about 25 times as many 30 micron particles as a Pure One. I would love to see these numbers for the various available filters, but no filter manufacturers release them. Hmm, wonder why???

The following info (and that in my previous post) was gleaned from researching filters for my G35 6mt sedan. Obviously, you will need to cross the specific filter number for your application, however, I thought sharing the info may be helpful.

This is what happens to a 'Fram-style' filter with cardboard end caps, with only slight squeeze between thumb and forefinger...


Obviously, not an issue with the PureOne which utilizes metal end caps...


Also, be very aware the Anti-Drain Back Valve PSI ratings on any oil filter you use must be as close as possible to OEM filter specs. For example, while both filters cross to my engine, the PureOne is rated 17psi vs. the M-110 at 25psi. OEM is 14psi and, since I'm using synth oil in a cold climate, I the lower psi of the PureOne is more appropriate for my application.

Note that anti-drain back valves are not all alike. Many oil filter brands have a really cheap piece of plastic that doesn't seal very well at all. Below is a picture of the Pure-One and the Mobil-1 anti-drainback valves. Both filters use the superior silicon rubber, however, the Pure-One has a larger core and a convex shaped mating surface to guarantee an excellent fit. The Mobil-1 has a flat seal and a flat mating surface which do not inspire the same confidence. The Mobil-1 anti-drainback valve isn't bad, it's clearly superior to that of most other filters..


The Purolators use superior media and are good, well made filters IMHO. However, notice the metal centertube does not extend the entire length of the filter. Like a cardboard end cap, unsupported folded media must take enough psi to open the bypass or failure will occur. While some may consider this cause for concern, I would note that the PureOne media is heavily epoxied at both ends and also appears to have some sort of coating on the media which acts a stiffener. I stuck a small metal rod into the opening and put what I feel is a fairly heavy amount of force on the center tube attempting to dislodge it, but it did not move.


In the end, I found (10) filters 'crossed' to my OEM filter #. Applying the high construction and filter media standards outlined above then eliminating all without silicone rubber ADBVs, I found only (3) filters for my G35 with bypass PSI the same as the OEM filter specs:

- Wix 51356
- NAPA Gold 21356
- Purolator L14610

Hope that helps, cheers.

This post has been edited by dholly: Feb 18 2008, 12:41 PM

Thanks for plagiarizing Mark Lawrence's website as your own research. The text is verbatim and even includes the same pictures:
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters

This is NOT your own research.

Wow, and a very good day to you as well my friend. I did not claim to be the source of this info, in fact I clearly said it was info gleaned while I was researching oil filters. Never the less, it is very good info, pertinent to this threads topic of Fram filter quality and, unlike you or I, not everyone who visits this forum may have had the good fortune to find it. Pardon my for trying to post some constructive, helpful information. Sheesh!

I use Bosch filters religiously and think they're fantastic. I finally managed to convince my friend to stop using Fram filters... :banana:

I took mine in to the dealer...had my oil change done there...after this i just felt that i'd rather be safe then sorry. i used castrol/fram combo on my last two GMC's and had no problems. I guess it helps that i work for the dealer so i get discounts on my oil changes.

I've only had trouble with two oil filters in my 25 years driving. Both were Fram.

John :innocent:

Here's the numbers for AMSOIL filters.

Absolute Efficiency
AMSOIL Ea Oil Filters have the best efficiency rating in the industry. EaO Filters provide a filtering efficiency in accordance with industry standard ISO 4548-12 of 98.7 percent at 15 microns, while competitive filters containing conventional cellulose medias range from 40 to 80 percent efficiency.

You can read up more at Ea Filter Line

What about purolator/pure 1 filters. I have always used them on all of the cars I have owned. I also plan on using them on my new Elantra. The Hyundai dealer- ship is 40 min away and I am not wasting the gas just to go out there for a oil filter.