Hello members,

I have an Hyundai Accent X3 1995 1.5 SOHC Manual Sedan.
I had the hazard lights on for 15mins while engine idle when the hazard lights stopped working along with the turn signals.
No response/noise/anything from the car when hazard switch is pressed or multi-function lever is used.

I've checked and swapped fuses.
I've got a new flasher unit.
All other electrics work fine.

hmaservice.com troubleshooting lists;
Turn signal does not operate and
Hazard warning lamps do not operate
but not both together.

The ones that correspond in both are:
Fusible link (30A) blown (it says 'replace bulb' but surely it means 'replace fuseable link)
Turn signal flasher faulty (maybe my new flasher is also faulty, but it is brand new)
Wiring or ground faulty (could anyone narrow it down to the best path to look for the fault?)

The other culprits are:
Turn signal switch faulty
Hazard switch faulty
Bulb blown and needs replacing.
But.. these are not in both troubleshooting lists.. so I assume they aren't the reason?

I'm begging for suggestions as to what could be wrong.. or ruling out of any of the culprits I've mentioned.

Thanks for helping!
tim

Quickly looking at the schematics, it seems each bulb has its own ground. So as long as at least one bulb is grounded, it should flash. Lack of a noise means the relay / flasher unit thingy may not be getting power, or is not grounded. Very simple to test with a multimeter.

Otherwise: Yes, it could be the switches. But I doubt they would both die at once. I'm guessing the relay. Should be simple to test: Pull it out, put a voltage across it, and it could click on and off.

pull the stereo surround and check the connection of the plug to the back of the hazard light button. I forget that **** plug every time I play with my setup and the same thing happens to me. sounds like its unplugged...

thank you for the suggestion.. I had checked it was plugged in, but I might have a closer look at the health of the wires in that location... and wherever they lead to.

I did test the flasher as per the hmaservice manual:



It didn't operate, but I think my testing scenario was rather dodgy, I'll try and be more scientific about it and do it again.
I'll also see about getting a multimeter and learning how to use it (should be youtube videos on this)

well... thats rough. Check the condition of the contacts in the plug too. maybe there is a short somewhere that damaged the switch itself. I would definitely focus on the hazard switch and wiring thats the only thing that would kill all of those lights at once (as far as I know...).

I retested my orginal flasher and it worked fine.. so I can rule out the flasher.
To help flasher issues with future members, I'll upload a photo of the test later, with the full method I used.

So, in the unlikely case that both Hazard and Multi-fuction switches died, I guess it's probably an earthing issue in a wire/part.
The flasher is not getting power, or the correct power, to operate properly.
I guess I'm off to learn how to use a multimeter, and buy one.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

Short answer, It was the Hazard Switch.

Long:
Here was my general method.
I'll try make it detailed so it really can help anyone who has a similar issue in future.


1. Indicators stop working
2. blame brother who borrowed car then snapped key off trying to pry gastank cap.. and then who tried to hotwire my car for a few hours so he could drive home.. and never cleaned up after his experiment.
3. make a decision to stop flippantly throwing money into my car and actually start learning about it.

3. come here, see link for online manuals at hmaservice.com
4. incorrectly test my flasher, order a new one, same poor result.
5. return here for some solid advice, thanks again everyone!

6. run a flasher test found at hmaservice and find flasher to actually be working properly.
here is the test, as it's instructed in one of my earlier posts:
(IMG:http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx317/stitchymandibles/flasherunittest.jpg)
basically, you need two 21w bulbs to create the correct resistance (ohms) for the flasher unit to do its thing.
also, it's important I suppose you use decent wires, i used wire from an old powersupply for my computer.
i just used some dodgy electrical tape to hold the wires in place.
for these lamps, the sleeves were negative, the nob on the base was positve.
the photo shows the lights blinking about 90 beats a second
apparently, the test is not dangerous to the flasher.

6. downloaded 'Auto Repair for Dummies 1999' (this isn't very helpful for auto-electrics)
7. downloaded 'Electronics for Dummies' which has a great section on multimeter testing and electonic basics.
8. buy a $9 multimeter from jaycar.com.au along with some 10A copper wire and wire cutters.

9. studying the schematics at hmaservice and using multimeter, I work out that power is getting to the hazard switch but not leaving it.
10. the hazard switch is removed, so i test the socket where it connects
11. two terminals on the socket record 12 volts. one terminal all the time, the other only when car is 'ON / START'

12. schematics show that I want the latter of those two, the variable terminal, to get its juice to the flasher.

13. so, I disconnect the battery, then plug a multimeter probe into the B (for Battery) terminal where the flasher normally sits.
this is shown here with the arrow (note, this is a RH driving australian version, but everything should be the same on the compartment relay board.. still, make sure!).
(IMG:http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx317/stitchymandibles/compartmentrelayflasher.jpg)
14. I test each of the terminals in the plug where the hazard swtich goes, and find one that has 'continuance' to the flasher.
15. I find one, so I connect a small piece of 12V 10A wire from that terminal to the 12V 'ON/START' terminal I mentioned... effectively patching the juice across and bypassing the hazard switch.

16. I reconnect battery and flasher, and now the car works fine! (apart from needing a new emergency switch)


I can't believe that was it! I figured that because both hazard and signals didn't work, it had to be something related to them, not actually them..
woulda thought they could operate totally independant but i guess that may take two flashers.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and I hope if you have similar issues on a '95 and need further info, you'll contact me

cheers,
tim

P.S. i got some decent info on flashers and how they operate at this site

Good job on figuring it out. Hopefully others can benifit from this, the hazard switch would have been the last guess for me!

I didn't really notice that the hazard was that whole block at the top of the schematic when I first looked at it, so I didn't realize a broken hazard switch would do that. Otherwise, I would not have ruled it out so quickly. (The circuit is presented much clearer for later models, but the schematic is the same.) It is a crappy design imho since one switch causes the entire system to fail, but I realize and apreciate why they implemented it like that. (Because the hazards need power at all times, it needs to switch the input between hot@on and hot@always, and replacing that with a relay would be almost as likely to fail, and cost more. Though, if it did fail, 95% of the time turn signals would still work.)

i appreciate that you looked tho.

yeah I was very confused at first about the extending hazard, and actually, pretty much everything.

hyundai official troubleshooting guide says turn signals non operating is; Fuse 9 blown / flasher faulty / signal switch faulty / wiring or ground faulty //
They don't even mention that the hazard switch is a cause.. so it seems they also were thrown by those early schematics =p


--------------------------

incidently, there's a bulb in the hazard switch that's so tiny you can hardly see if the coil is intact.
to release the bulb, slightly turn the plastic screw-socket.

mine tested open, but I doubt it's replaceable and besides, by shorting where it used to sit I still couldn't regain continuity on the hazard-switch prongs.
I'm sure a hazard switch won't cost much from a wrecker.

thanks for the followup atrain

interesting, I'll give this a shot. I had all but given up!