Hey everyone, new to the forum but not to Hyundai. Recently (5000kms ago) I bought a 2009 Santa Fe Limited 3.3L. So far I havent been all that impressed with it. Deffintely not as impressed as i was with my Veracruz GLS in the 35,000 kms it has on it. Anyway, i was looking into aftermarket accessories for the Santa Fe, they seem limited to Korean Auto Imports mostly, and I am debating how to go about improving the fuel mileage out of this under achiever. I am trying to decide between a Cold Air Intake, like a F.I.P.Kit from K&N to improve the mileage or possibly a programmer or chip. I have had excellent results with chips/modules in the past on trucks, diesels especially.

Has anyone had any experience with a cold air intake or programmer or chip on a 3.3L? Any thoughts which is better? I dont exactly trust the Ebay chips for the Santa Fe, but i found THIS one on a website, the chip and the O2 sensor mod.
http://www.engineperformancechip.com/hyund...sor-control-p-6

There are also these 2, i believe they were the generation before the first link i posted. http://www.engineperformancechip.com/hyund...nce-chip-x2-p-8
http://www.engineperformancechip.com/hyund...ance-module-p-7


And while i was writing this i found this one lol
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001NGRS3M/ref=as...ASIN=B001NGRS3M

Any Thoughts or even better anyone with experience with something like this?

This post has been edited by Shake&Bake: Oct 12 2009, 06:48 PM

All of the mods you mention are directed at improving power, not mileage.

I'd pass on the K&N - the filter would be nice, but the cold intake is unlikely to improve on the factory design. You need to take a look at what's in there, first.

Best bet for improving your mileage on a SF 3.3? Keep the brick below 70mph and avoid using the left pedal whenever possible. It'll get you good mileage cruising at moderate highway speeds, but won't cut you any slack for trying to move air out of your way quickly. Starting 'er up from a dead stop kills mileage quickly, too.

I can't imagine for the life of me why your Veracruz would have given you more per gallon, either.

Last - don't be surprised if the mileage seemingly improves out of nowhere soon enough. When mine clocked between 3000 and 3500 (miles, not km) things got better for reasons I've never understood, and others have reported similar experiences.

Product Features
Add 40+ Horsepower
Add 40+ Ft. LBS Torque
Save 7-10+ MPG
Improved Throttle Response by 40+%
Lifetime Warranty


All I have to say about this is... if it sounds too good to be true...

The first few links are just devices that supposedly fake air intake temp signal and/or lambda (O2) sensor signals, and allegedly trick the ECU into enriching the fuel mixture to make more power. First off, HP gain and mpg improvement are competing goals. Enriching fuel mixture might get your a few ponies (and possibly carbon deposits and emission control ills), mpg will surely suffer.

Secondly, these tricks may have worked back in the days of simple fuel injections systems, whose ECUs are easily fooled. Today's Engine Management Systems are much more sophisticated and have many more detectors and control schemes. The ECU may cross check different sensor inputs to tell if certain sensor values may be unreliable. Employing these simpleton tricksters with wild claims of HP gains and fantastic mpg savings will most likely net your not much more than a "check engine" light ON and multiple DTC trouble codes. If you enjoy visiting your nearest Hyundai Service dept AND a hole in your wallet, these are certainly good buys. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

I actually just read a great page, and apparently imports dont have easily removable or reprogrammable chips or ecu's. Jet Chips actually requires a ECU removal and it to be sent to them to fully reprogram it. http://www.jetchip.com/Shop/shopdisplaypro...=10&catID=1 So that sounds like too much work lol Apparently thats one area domestics are better in.

And I do know the majority of chips are BS, and you should NEVER have to cut wires to install a chip..... a REAL module that works usually will plug in IN LINE with no mods, if its reputable. I have PERSONALLY seen a gain of 5-7 MPG and 90 HP on both the 5.9L Cummins Diesels and the Duramax. Thes were achieved with nothing more than a plug in module, a fuel rail, that changed what RPM the fuel was distributed at. It basicalls changed the ECU of the enginee into thinking peak RPM was say 2200 RPM instead of 3500, and made huge gains in both MPG and HP with no real changes other than that. By bringing the peak power down to useable RPM u are not in the throttle so hard anytime. Its called the "workhorse" diesel module. I would highly recommend it for anyone with a diesel and stand behind any claim they make. My father in law has one, my dad, grand dad, uncles, they all use it and they all have had major improvements in MPG out of their diesels. So based on THIS experience i figured SOMEONE had to have the knowledge as to be able to trick a GAS engine, since they are no more highly complicated than todays diesels, probably LESS to be honest. So how is it possible to gain much better MPG and HP on a diesel but not a gas? I have never tuned gas engines other than 2 strokes so i might be missing something lol.

Looks like a Cold air intake will win out. They deffinitely do increase HP, again on diesels alot more than gas, but they usually DO increase your MPG. as well. Same reasoning as why a CLEAN airfilter works better than a dirty one. More airflow, more efficency, more MPG and HP. And the stock one i believe can deffinitely be improved upon, if u see where it draws its air from. Same kinda idea as if u were to install a RAM air. Again just more efficent.

Anyone used any of the Jet style programs???

Howabout this: http://yhst-19807630266082.stores.yahoo.ne...mance-ch12.html
Looks promising... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif)

Has anybody ever improved the consumption of any modern car by popping in replacement parts that the engineers somehow overlooked?

Sorry to be cynical, but this strikes me as a sucker-born-every-minute kind of project. I oughta know... as a kid I once drilled yellow fog lights into the bumper of a decrepit old Pontiac because I had convinced myself that they were an important safety/performance feature (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laughing.gif)

My advice is the same as Canderson's.... keep your highway speed reasonable and practice staying off the brakes as much as possible. As for your Veracruz, could this be a simple case of seller's remorse? That Veracruz is a nice ride - a step above the Santa Fe in every way - and nowhere in your post do you cite any actual consumption numbers for either vehicle.

Certainly not in THIS day and age with the increasing pressure for mpg. All that those upstream O2 sensor kits do is fake the engine into allowing a richer mixture... certainly not something that improves mileage.

Get a good K&N filter and call it a day. All you're talking about above is decent airflow.

A "cold" intake is designed to pull the air from someplace better than the hotter areas of the engine compartment, and the existing Hyundai design does a pretty good job of that as it is. Colder air = denser air (by some margin) = better performance. I do see where it draws air, and am pretty happy with it. I've seen MUCH worse, and it's those designs that really benefit.

"Ram air" is an entirely different beasty. Do not mistake a cold intake system for an induction system that provides a significant positive pressure increase for older designs that can use it. Up here (Colorado) where it would count the most on an older engine design, they really did provide a substantial performance boost. No help with mileage on the newer vehicles, just performance. Jamming in more air won't change the air/fuel ratio, but it can give you more of both.

Just curious -- has anyone ever SEEN a K&N cold kit plumbed for a Santa Fe? I'm not even sure they make one.

This post has been edited by canderson: Oct 13 2009, 10:41 AM

IMHO, CAI on a diesel works because there is no throttle plate. On a gas engine driving around with the typical low loading, the throttle plate will be a bit more closed because of the denser air causing a slight increase in pumping losses - like breathing through a smaller snorkel or using a smaller straw.

Get a ScanGauge, pump up the tires and beg Hyundai to sell a diesel here...

Again, that may have been true back in the days of carbs and simple FI systems. These days, with mass air flow sensors, a dirty air filter just means that your engine's max air flow rate is restricted, which means that your engine won't make as much power at WOT as with a clean filter. MPG won't suffer much with a dirty air filter, because the ECU will meter the exact amount of fuel per the intake air mass, which is precisely measured by the MAF sensor.

If the engine sucks less air through a dirty filter, the ECU will just meter less fuel. MPG is unaffected.

This post has been edited by Volfy: Oct 13 2009, 10:56 AM

As for the Cold Air Intake, I would be for it if they leave the intake plenums alone and just replace the filter air box. Unfortunately, in order to plumb in the big-@ss air filter cone, most of these CAI assemblies replace the factory intake plenum with a straight pipe.

The problem with that is now you just did away with the intake air system that the factory engineers had tuned precised for this engine application, which may include variable length intake runners and/or plenum chambers that open/close depending on intake air temp and/or engine RPM.

With the aftermarket cold air intake and simple straight pipe, your max HP at WOT at high RPM may increase slightly, but driveability everywhere else suffers. So the qeustion you need to ask yourself is: what's more important to you? Absolutely peak HP or daily part-throttle driving?

I'm getting about 1mpg less with my VC so far in mix driving compared the SF - pretty much per the EPA numbers.

Uhh... more like Promising until you look closely...(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I can never get enough of these wild claims and great looking charts showing dramatic HP improvements. Except... if you look closely, the chart has no scaling on it.

Re-mapping Ignition and fuel more aggressively to take advantage of higher-octane fuel is nothing new. Except the gain is not really all that much. I remember Hyundai chief Krafcik once said in an interview that the reason Hyundai doesn't do like the European car makers and advertise HP numbers with premium octane fuel (for the Genesis IIRC) is because the difference is some 2 hp.

Best part is, why pay $89.99 when the stock system already has knock sensor systems that will adapt to higher octane fuel?

Exactly. The #1 determiner to fuel economy is how and where you drive your vehicle. #2, keep your tires inflated to door jamb sticker specs or slightly higher. "Cold air intakes" on a modern, MAF equipped vehicle will do absolutely nothing for you but make for a cleaner custom look and give you a custom sound. K&N airfilters also do nothing good for a MAF equipped, computer managed daily driver.

Joel

Sure they do - they last much longer! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grin.gif) Might also permit a little easier breathing for WOT operation. Good replacement filters.

I think we can all agree, however, that none of the OP's devices are going to address the OP's original issue, which was with MPG, not power.

Oh, no... the dreaded overinflation issue! (Not to put words in your mouth, Joel... you did say "slightly" higher.)

In a previous thread I argued in favour of moderate overinflation (ie: 42 psi, which is well above Hyundai's recommendation but still within the tire's maximum rating). But I eventually grew tired of the harsh ride and skittish grip, and went back to 32 psi. No noticeable difference in consumption.

My conclusion is that if you're going to exceed 32 psi for fuel economy's sake, do some research and then go all the way... 50 or 60 psi or whatever it is the hypermilers are running in pursuit of that extra 2 mpg. Just be sure to say your prayers before heading off down the highway, and if anything goes wrong we never had this conversation.

Can you quantify (guesstimate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) how much better?

Colin

Diesel and gas are far different. Cai might give u +/- 1 mpg. Exhaust being free flowing will help. Those add in chips do nothing unless u want 5 to 10 hp at most ( unless its diesel than more) or u buy a manual. I changed exhaust and cai and I gained about 2-3 mpg.

So the average person might spend $500 or more on parts to save $50 per year on gas? No offense, but it just doesn't add up.

It goes back to the original point that the engineers who designed the car usually do know best, whereas most other people are simply after your money.

Don... if it's 2-3 mpg on a 1.5 litre Accent that's a hulovalot less significant than saving the same on a Santa Fe. That's a small difference for an economy car and it would be hard to tell if that was just from the exhaust or from driving more on summer gas to the engine breaking in or something like the tires being worn down by several tenths causing more ODO error.

I can't see anyone finding the Santa Fe's exhaust system restrictive unless they're flooring it a lot, then the fuel economy is gonna be crap regardless! LOL

My sources say that the slush has begun back in the old country! ;-)