Does anyone know when the 2010's start rolling out? or know of any new features?I hear that they are going to be adding the paddles on the steering for shifting?

Hyundai is rather sporadic as to how they stagger their model years. 2008 Azera didn't come out until April or May of 2008. 2009 Azera came out four or five months later. The call as to when they start rolling out 2010s will depend on how much '09 Genesis inventory they need to get through after they start manufacturing '10s. Since they hold their cards pretty close to the vest, we probably won't know about 2010 until they release it in the KDM. And we won't know when they are coming to N. America until they start showing up at the docks in California.

The Genesis is dead, long live the Equus. Per Motor Trend, July 2009, "we hear" column, Hyundai chairman is pushing the Equus. H. has already abandoned the Genesis sedan in favor of promoting the Genesis coupe. When the Equus gets closer to arrival, that is all you will hear about in the upper echelon cars. They will still push the economy cars and SUV's because that is where the bread and butter is. Azera, Vera Cruz, Genesis? Last year's toys.

If they pull another Azera marketing wonder on the Genesis they'll be dead in the water for ANY CAR above the Sonata!

They lost a Genesis sale from me because of how they handled the Azera, imagine how those who bought the Genesis will feel if they they too become "orfans". Hyundai is cutting its own throat at the luxurious car level.

Ok all makes sense. But who can afford a $75k Equus? as it stands you dont see too many Genesis' on the road I think it is the cost factor. Granted I just bought one 3 days ago and I just love it

Recently occured to me that I see a lot of Sonatas, Elantras, Santa Fes, and Tucsons and saw several Azeras when they were new. Now rarely see another Azera, but did see one last Sunday. Have never seen a Genesis on interstate or any other road and I look at cars a lot.
Don't think it is a cost factoer per se. Probably partially the economy, but mostly very few people interested in a 35-40K Hyundai right now. For a couple of thousand more, you can get a proven car in that class.

Well, what does 'proven car' mean? Lexus GS350 vs. Genesis 3.8? GS460 vs. Genesis 4.6? I assume so, since the BMW 5-series and Mercedes E-class counterparts are even more expensive. And even with this closest competitor, "A couple" actually means $13k-$15k. That's over 40% of the Genesis sticker price. That's not "a couple"... that's a gaggle of thousands of dollars. And while "in this recession" some folks might spend "a couple" thousand dollars for a comparable, proven car, one could equally argue that in this recession, many, many more folks will be interested in buying a new car that cost "a couple" fewer thousands of dollars for the same kind of motor, transmission, engineering, size and features. In fact, the whole principle of finding more economical ways to get what you want in times of economic stress would indicate a categorical substantiation for the polar opposite of your claim - in a recession, people will specifically NOT be willing to pay a few thousand more for a proven car; especially not $12k or $13k. What they will be willing to do in tight times is to save $12k or $13k and give Hyundai a chance.

That doesn't mean that the Genesis is perfect or that any complaints are invalid; it simply indicates that by pretty well-established and accepted interpretations of economic trends, Genesis will be doing well in 2009 where its competitors will not.

By the sales numbers, it's just the opposite. Genesis is doing better business than Azera did in any of the last few years, while Azera's dying on the vine. Looks like Genesis is cannibalizing almost all of Azera's sales, and picking up some more from other makes besides.

Exactly! That's why Hyundai has to mind its Ps & Qs as how it markets its "luxury cars"

People buying luxury cars are less interested with "Great Value" and a lot more with show and cachet and at that price you are into Lexus & Infiniti territory.

Proven means ES350, Infiniti G, Acura TL and some others. While some may think Genesis is in the upper categories, it really isn't except in size. No way is it a real contender for BMW or M-B of any kind or GS/LS Lexus level. Might be some day, but not now. IF it was, Hyundai would not be in the process of bringing the Equus to US within the next 2-3 years. BTW, I would never purchase a BMW or an M-B.
I can get a 09 Lexus ES 350 comparable to a Genesis for 34,500 vs. 33,100 per Edmunds TMV. According to Consumer Reports Genesis, Acura TL, Infiniti G and Lexus ES are in same class.

Naturally you are at liberty to draw any comparison or choose any source as authoritative, but I would respectfully disagree with the Consumer Reports claim that these are comparable cars. They seem to be comparing these cars in price range only. Acura TL is a small sedan and FWD. Infinity G is a small sedan and RWD or AWD. Lexus ES is a mid-size sedan and FWD. Genesis is a large sedan and RWD. These cars have wildly varying drivetrain configurations, power output, and handling / acceleration characteristics. They are ALL very nice cars and obviously you wouldn't be doing badly in any one of them - they are ALL nice cars - and I mean that, both objectively and SUBJECTIVELY. What I mean is, I LIKE all of those cars, I think they're all very cool (well, maybe not the new TL - that thing is a dismal aesthetic abortion). This is why I get a little snippy about drawing what I will unfavorably describe as irrelevant comparisons.

The relevant features of the Genesis are: "high-output" V6/V8, rear wheel drive, mid-large sedan. Anything that doesn't offer those characteristics, don't offer relevant comparisons. You could say that a brand new, top-of-the-line Accent is less expensive than one rim on a Lamborghini Gallardo but you're not making the relevant comparison there. When I talk about "comparables", I mean it in the same sense as comparables for a house that's for sale - similar size, similar location, similar configuration (beds & baths), similar time period for the sale. Right now that means, Lexus GS, M-B E class, BMW 5 series, maybe Infiniti M (although that's on the large side), Jag S-Type (now, XF) or Acura RL. 7 series, S class, XJ, M, LS, are all going to be a bit bigger. 3-series, C class, X-Type, Infiniti G, IS, ES, TL are all going to be a bit smaller. If you want a "proven" car within the list of relevant comparables, then it's going to be the list above - 5 series, E class, GS, M. The cars you mention - ES, G, TL, are all smaller, less powerful and differently-configured vehicles. CR might call them comparable but as I already said, it's in price only. You need to emplyo a particularly... two-dimensional perspective on the relevant features and value of a luxury vehicle to actually believe that these are indeed relevant comparisons.

If you don't particularly care about drivetrain configuration, power, size, and simply want a certain nameplate within a certain price range (regardless of the specs of the machine that actually bears that nameplate), then it is CERTAINLY the case that you can get a C-class, 3-series, G, TL, IS, ES, X-type, new OR used, well within the price point of a Genesis...

And again, I want to emphasize, it is not the case that I dislike any of those cars. I actually think the ES is a gorgeous car and at this point I would much rather have one than my Azera - which is the relevant comparison. But again - an Azera doesn't cost what a Genesis costs. The Lexus GS is the relevant competitor in their line-up for a Genesis, and I think in that category of vehicles I'd rather have the Genesis for the price.

Cheers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-Andy


This post has been edited by andyman32: Jun 12 2009, 08:31 PM

Uhh, that's what happens when new models come out (it applies to every manufacturer).



The Equus will likely start in the low-mid $50k range (there are still plenty of people who can afford that or more).



By "proven", do you mean the Lexus GS, the Infiniti M and the Audi A6?

B/c the Genesis sedan, w/ monthly sales in the 1,600/1,700 range is outselling those two models by a 3:1 ratio.

The Genesis sedan is also outselling the DTS, MKS and S80 and is outselling the RL by a 10:1 margin.



Then why are Lexus and Infiniti struggling w/ sales of the GS and M models?

Yeah, the Genesis sedan may have done better in sales (tho, it's not far off the mark of Hyundai's annual sales goals of 20k units annually; and that was before the economic crisis) if it had been sold under a new "lux" mark, but keep in mind that it would have also meant a $5-6k price increase to help offset the costs of setting up a new dealer network.



Sorry, but the ES is a gussied up FWD Camry and drives like one.

The direct comparison to the Genesis sedan in the Lexus lineup is the GS and the Genesis holds its own.

And the reason why Hyundai is bringing the Equus to the US is b/c it is a large-sedan offering to compete against the S Class, 7 Series, A8 and LS (the Genesis competes w/ the 5 Series, E Class, M and GS in terms of size and appointments).

Replying to Andyman32.
We can argue this all day long, but when people are shopping for cars, mine are the comparisons people will make. That is why Consumer Reports, and other publications, group them the way they do. Do a comparison in Edmunds New Car section of these cars and you will find very little difference in real size. Genesis is a little larger and IMO looks better than the others. Also, it has more features for the buck. But is that enough?
As for performance, etc., the majority of people in this price/car range are looking for status just as much - and Hyundai ain't got it.
While the Genesis is selling well, it is a brand new car, is getting favorable publicity and lots of people "Got to have it." Once the initial burst goes away, will sales hold up? It was 2,000 cars per month and is now 1,600? Sales already falling? BTW, Acura RL is about the lowest selling car of anything out there. $50,000 for very little car!
Another factor is that there is a large used car market for Lexus, Acura, Infiniti and even BMW, et. al. So manufacturers are losing new car sales to their own used cars. There are no used Genesis' out there in reality.

It seems to me that gator is talking out of his arse since he doesn't seem to know the FACTS.

The Genesis sedan's sales have INCREASED over the first half of this year and are currently selling at a 1,600-1,700 clip (last year, it started at a 600 monthly clip and rose to 1,100 by the end of the year) and the Genesis just broke over 2,000 in monthly sales this past May (this includes sales of the first shipments of the coupe) - so NO, sales aren't "already falling."

And the Genesis is hardly a "new" model anymore, being on the US market for just about a year now (w/ no major incentives mind you) and it is still outselling the GS, the M and the A6 at a 3:1 ratio.

As for not having used Genesis sedans on the market, why would people buy a new Genesis if they could just get a used GS, M or A6 for the same price?

Really, gator has all the earmarks of a troll.

This post has been edited by CP1: Jun 14 2009, 05:45 PM

Replying to CP1
Did you pass high school English? Your reading skills are poor as you missed my points entirely. Sales are down for NEW Lexus, Acura, Infiniti and many others because there are used alternatives available. There are no used Genesis sales to cut into new Genesis sales. As reagrds sales numbers, ....
Too heck with it, I have better things to do.

^ Funny, considering that you can write barely intelligible sentences (w/ bad grammar and all).

Not to mention the fact that you have been pretty much WRONG in all of your assertions, such as the Genesis declining in sales.

As for your "rationale" that sales of Lexus, Infiniti, etc. are down due to used car sales - there have been used Lexus, Infiniti, etc. cars available for years - and the sales of certain models, like the ES and G37 haven't dropped off precipitously like that for the GS.

Plus, 70% of purchasers of the Genesis sedan are conquest buyers - new to the Hyundai brand.

Maybe in you next endeavor ("having better things to do"), you will be a bit more successful...

I'm not arguing wiht you, nor debating what you found in Consumer Reports or Consumer Guide or Edmunds or what have you. I guess I"m just talking out loud. I'm just taking the same perspective as Hyundai marketing - when you talk about "comparable cars" you would ostensibly talk about cars that have the same kind of features (engine, transmission, drivetrain layout, size, amenities).

Of course you can HAVE a Mercedes C350 for the same price as a Genesis 4.6. If all you want is the badge and you don't really care what you're getting for the money, then the Genesis probably wouldn't even be on your list. You can also have a C350 for about the same price as a high-end Chevy Malibu. Dunno. It just depends how you define "relevant".

Yeah, I don't know where the conversation is going. It's hard to imagine a stronger value proposition for... okay, then I won't just use the categorical term "relevant" comparisons - but let's say, a stronger value proposition for cars of a similar size, drivetrain configuration, engine and amenities.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) -Andy

Appears from Hyundai Think Tank that Equus will probably be here sometime in 2010. They already have 10 Korean versions travelling around U.S. for show and tell.
Once arrival is imminent it will cut into Genesis Sedan sales the way Genesis cut into Azera. Equus/Genesis will probably doom Azera in a couple of years.
Have only seen a couple of Azeras on road in last few months and only one Genesis. Travel in the largest, most affluent metro area of SC. See lots and lots of Lexus, BMW, MB, Acura, Infiniti, etc.
Ironically the dealers for above advertise heavily, but none of the five Hyundai dealers advertise at all. Even the five Toyota dealerships advertise heavily. Though they do offer up to $3,000 off on Genesis when you ask them.

Should be here 4th quarter of 09, if the 09's have cleared out.

Some 09's already have the revised suspension. 2010 gets a new suspension, the DIS now gets touch screen capabilities. Bluetooth is now available without nav. Well at least one that integrates with the stereo. Nav is now standard on v8's.