Okay... (breathing into brown paper bag...) I'm okay.

All joking aside. $60 a pair is a lot for a couple of 55/65w halogen bulbs, however fancy they may be. Without going up in wattage, ther is only so much efficiency improvement you can squeeze out of the old incadescent technology. Much of the fancy claims of drastic improvements are just that - fancy claims. Before I converted to HIDs, I bought a few of the supposed xx% more light bulbs, pretty expensive ones too. One nice thing about being an old shutterbug is that I have a Sekonics incident light meter. Set up on a tripod and placed 25ft in front of the headlight - right in the brightest spot - the meter tells no lies. Compared to a wattage upgrade (say 80w from 55w), the fancy bulbs don't really put out any significant increase. In fact, the typically blue-tinted ones put out less light than the good ol' clear Hella bulb. But they do look "whiter".

Very few so-called reviews and comparos will give you actual lumens numbers. Instead, they publish some obscure index number, or % values. All to make you feel like you are getting real improvement for your wad of cash. "50% more light" = 50% more than what? 45w Sylvania sealed beam?

Fancy bulbs are like oil additives that instantly rejuvinate old engines and fuel line vortex devices that add 6-8mpg. Cheap enough to hook suckers, and way too good to be true.

In the world of halogen bulbs, the only ways to get more light output are:

1. Upping the wattage. In the old days of real glass+metal headlights, this is not a problem. These days, the plastic headlights don't take kindly to the extra heat produced.

2. Change the headlight. For those of us in the USA, which still has antiquated lighting laws, upgrading to E-code headlights can yield very dramatic results. Of course, that's assuming there is an E-code headlight for your vehicle. I used to be a big VW nut, and Euro-conversion for VWs were very popular. I still keep two sets of VW GTI 7" round E-Code headlights for posterity sake. With 80/100w H4 bulbs, these puppies will put out more light than most OEM HIDs.

3. Add auxilliary lights. This is a sure fire way to more lumens, limited only by your budget, and the ability of your vehicle to accomodate. Instead of blowing $60 on fancy bulbs, invest in a nice set of Hella driving light. The gain in illumination you'll have will be indisputable.

Well, here is my Apexcone 5K 35W.



15 sec after the switch is on.

(IMG:http://nidspace.us/images/apex_a.jpg)


2 min after the switch is on.

(IMG:http://nidspace.us/images/apex_b.jpg)

This post has been edited by nid: Apr 29 2009, 05:56 AM

One obvious option you missed, although I have no idea what the technology would be to accomplish it (I'm into physics, but not specifically light bulbs!) --- get more of those photons jiggling in the visible light spectrum instead of generating heat. A great deal of halogen lamp energy is in the IR spectrum, just like any other tungsten bulb -- useless for driving unless you're into wearing FLIR goggles while you drive. Say, THERE'S an idea!

If they could ever sort this out, it would allow you to do one of two things:

1) With the same input power, get more light at a useful (visible) wavelength and less heat
2) With more input power, get even more light and generate the same amount of heat, avoiding headlight assembly meltdown.

Using dichroic materials is nice, but doesn't really help the heat issue -- just puts the problem "somewhere else".


The other solution would be continued improvement in the reflectors made by the auto manufacturers. Let's face it -- these aren't really primo optical quality coatings we're talking about here. The % reflectance is OK, but not great, but higher % costs money. Further, I often wonder about the shapes and whether they're really putting the light in a truly optimal pattern for driving.

Well, I guess I should have specified practical ways of getting more light output. I wasn't talking about pie-in-the-sky things.

You're right to suspect that these organically shaped aero headlamps do much to compromize lighting effectiveness. Bu tthey look sexy, and sexy sells cars.

As far as traditional lamp reflectors go, best shape is round parabolic. Anything else is a compromize. And the bigger the reflector the better. Projectors can be more efficient, because they use a specifically shaped lens to bend light collected by an internal reflector (usually computer-contoured). But not all projectors carry the same level of quality or sophistication.

Checked out this website for more info: http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Beams.aspx They also have a page that shows the beam patterns of all the Hella lamps.

Right now, the best mass-produced automotive lighting technology happens to be HID. Halogen is still prevalent because of a single reason - they are cheap. I think the future lies with LEDs. A handful of high-end automobiles use them, but LEDs do hold the promise of the future for virtually all lighting applications. They will eventually take over the compact fluoresecent light bulbs for home lighting.

If you really, and I mean really want brighter auxiliary driving lights, consider "Aircraft Landing Lights" Yes, you heard me right. Aircraft Landing lights.

Years ago when most cars had quad headlamps, I used to put a set of aircraft landing lights in the area that supported the bright lights. They were always in the inboard set of lights.

There were some modifications that I had to do but this does not apply to today's automobiles. With today's automobiles, they will have to be used as auxiliary driving lights.

If installed, they will have to be used exclusively, without the other lights lit. The reason is because they draw too much amperage. These are the same lamps that are used by all aircraft when landing. The light output is fantastic.

For those of you who are interested in doing this, do some research on the internet. I have not done this for many years but have been considering this for the last few months.

The last automobile that I had these installed in was a 1967 Pontiac Catalina. The ligting will brighten your way for almost a mile.

They are illegal for use on highway vehicles so install at your own risk.

David <><

Yeah I had seen those, but for me in Canada the shipping was $20.00 US so when it was all done with exchange and stuff it was almost $100.00 a pair. Instead I got 2 pairs for $120.00 Cnd from the UK. I though it was a pretty good deal for Canadian buyer. It seem that these lights hasn't made it in Canada. Sorry I should say this, I found one dealer in Toronto, but he was selling them for $80.00 Cnd a pair...


But for US buyers there a few retailer that sell at a decent price.

Also to make it clear to everyone, this bulb won't WOW the pants off you. Here some what I personally noticed
-It bring an "improvement" to the OEM bulb.
-There aren't going up in the wattage so no Heat problems.
-There aren't blue bulb (are only to fool other that you might have HID and don't last very long)
-These light have been on my car since Last summer and so far no burn out and I drive with my lights on about 90% of the time.

- Several studies publish in engineering publishing and internet shows that a HID swap (Installing HID in a Halogen Projectors) aren't very effective. The projector is "design" to capture the rays of lights and redirected properly in the front. Halogen are more "flood" light and the projector uses that form to redirect the rays properly "as much as possible". HID bulb are very narrow beam, but installing an HID kit in your halogen projector your are "actually" losing a lot of light rays that goes astray. I got most of this information from a friend who is an engineer who actually specialize in light pattern, he works for a bulb company. He also tell me a lot of time that the eye can be trick very easily. He did look at the bulb I purchased and told me that these are a "slight" improvement to the regualr OEM halogen light!!

That is why I choose these bulbs.

Like I have said these bulbs will not WOW you. I have noticed an "improvement", but not something that you would noticed looking at my SF.






This post has been edited by CndRedCoat: Apr 30 2009, 08:20 AM

Geez, you must be as old as I am! Did the same thing ages ago to my '64 Pontiac Bonneville. Had a pilot friend who turned me on to the idea back when I was living in K.C. He'd put a pair on his Buick Riviera and I was convinced. I have no idea just how illegal these things were, but they certainly did light up the night (and as you noted, were a clean 1-1 replacement for the high beams!) Let's just say that I became a bit more circumspect about when I used them. Would have been hard to explain to the cops why my car didn't have a tail number.

Yah, I'm pretty old. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grin.gif) Pic was taken about 3 months ago.

Will turn 69 in September but still having a great life.

The first car I installed the AC landing lights in was a new 69 Catalina 2 door HT. From that time on, just before I traded the car in, which was every year, I would replace them with the originals and keep the AC lights.

I think they worked on my 70 Grand Prix, 71 Grandville, and 72 Grand Prix. If my memory serves me correctly, they didn't work on my 73 and 74 Grand Prixs due to the fact that they went to rectangular headlights.

During all those years with the same pair of headlights installed in each of those Pontiacs, I only had one lamp burn out. I believe they cost me $20 for the pair in 1969. That was very expensive considering the regular lamps were only $2 or $3 each.

Obviously I was a Pontiac guy back then. My last Pontiac was a 76 Trans Am, then I went with Oldsmobiles after that for a few years.

Back to the AC Lamps. I doubt that I will try to mount AirCraft landing lights since the mounting system would be a problem and the heat is a factor. These bulbs are now halogen and sell for $80 each.

Want to know why they were so bright on our cars? They put out 250 Watts! I remember that you could feel the heat coming off of them 10 feet away. I had to bend one of the tabs from the outer bulbs so that they would go off when the inner lamps came on, otherwise, the circuit braker would kick.

Those were fun days because the cars were easy to modify. We didn't have to worry about Electronic Body Modules (ECU) or anything else, for that matter. Only the cops.

David <><

Thanks for all those responses. Now I am really undecided - lol! Volify: You have all but sold me on HIDs, then someone would say something that would cause me concern and now, I am not even sure about the aftermarket halogens. What I DO know is that OEM lights on this SUV are unacceptable. So a few more questions...

1) On the latest HID kits from e-bay, are there still significant start-up times/delays with these lights?
2) Do any of these kits come with the relays that allow for a direct connection from the battery?
3) I live in Northern Canada where it can get to -40 frequently (then again, I've experienced this in the Dakotas and Minnesota (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
but, does the cold have significant impact on HIDs?
4) There has been an argument that the projectors used on the Santa Fe are not suitable for HIDs because they source of light will not be at the same focal point. How different are the low beams from the highs and even the fogs? Does anyone have experience with aftermarket halogens AND HIDs?
5) ANyone have experience with day-time running lights and HIDs? Will they work WITHOUT having to turn the headlights on?
6) HIDs in the fog lights? Anyone try this?
7) Finally, am I to understand there is cutting in the plastic housing if I want to use HIDs? Is this for all three lights (hi/lo/fog). Does this mean there is no going back to halogen?

Thanks again for all the input.


Oh yeah...what kind of heat do HIDs put out? More or less than halogens?

This post has been edited by MajBach: May 5 2009, 10:30 PM

Sorry to drag this out.
I've been surfing since I typed the above and am having problems understanding the difference between H7 and PX26D. And what are thie differences between say H7, H3, H13 etc? What about 880, 881. Is it ant wonder I am confused?

1. Any HID will have some delay on startup brightness. Used on low beams, this is usually not a problem, unless a partucular car is wired to switch off the low beam when high beam is ON. Hyundais don't do this. The newer digital balast/starter improves on this a bit, but start up time is still there. My impression is that they probably reach 80% brightness after 5-7 sec. I could set up to test to find out exactly, but it doesn't bother me near enough to get to that point. May be the $300-600 Hella aftermarket HIDs would do better, I don't know. Too rich for my blood.

2. Some of the seller offer a relay kit for $15-30 more. Or you can make your own with the instructions I posted in this forum.

3. I would imagine the exteme cold temps would lengthen the startup delay, but then again, why is everyone in such a hurry to get the headlight up and going? When you get into your car dead cold and turn on the headlights, by the time you start the car and go through the usual ritual of buckling up, etc., the low beam will be blazing already. Even if they haven't reached 100%, you still have more light at 80% than what you had before with Halogens. Once they reach operating temp and full brightness, even if you turn them off for a few seconds and back on, they will still be very near or at full brightness because the bulb will still be pretty warm still. Seriously folks, get a reality check. I really believe this start-up delay is blown way out of proportion by those when chose not to go HID just to make themselves feel better.

4. Again, the beam pattern thing often gets blown out of proportion. While there are some validity to calls for concern, any blanket statement on HID effectiveness is unlikely to be true - for or against HID. For the '07-09 Santa Fe, the low beam pattern is not the best I've seen for projectors, but it isn't half bad. The horizontal cutoff is fairly sharp, both halogen and HID. THe H7 bulb has a "vertical" filament that sits out a fair distance from the base, so the offset with HID is not too terrible. There are other bulb configurations that does worse in this regard, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion. Yes, there is more stray light above the cutoff line with HID, but that is because there is simply more light output (particularly with my 55w HID conversion). I personally don't think it is objectionable, and I have yet to be flashed by other on-coming drivers. The key is proper aiming of the headlights and staying off any higher color temp than 6000K. Mine is 4300K, which is closest to daylight, outputs the most lumens, and draws the least amount of attention (and ire) from other drivers. I see no sensible reason to go higher in color temp. I always say: I upgrade to performance lighting to look where I am going, not to look cool.

5. For crying out loud, HID works just fine as DRL. At 35w nominal, you can afford to leave them on.

6. HID may or may not be a good idea for fog lights. 1st, most fogs use H3, which has a shorter bulb length, so the HID offset will be longer and the effect on beam pattern correspondingly greater. 2nd, if the fogs are traditional reflectors and OEM, the beam pattern may be crappy to begin with. HID will exacerbate the problem. Same goes with cheapo aftermarket fogs. Now, if you spend the money on a high-performance set of fog lights, install and aim them right, HID has a far better chance of enhancing their performance even more.

7. I would only recommend converting low beam to HID. Since cutting is only on the round back cover, you can easily convert back to halogen. Either buy new back covers, or seal back up the cut ones weather tight.

8. HID is at most 35w worth off heat. Last time I checked with the unifying theory of this known Universe, that is still less than 55w worth of halogen heat. Other parallel Universes may vary.


Honestly, if you put up with reading through all my rambling and are still in doubt whether you should go HID at this point, do us both a favor and stay with the good old H7. Please! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks for the response!
I do want to point out that I am not trying to creat debate, just make an informed decision. Up here, I do not have the luxury of shopping around or returning something. I have to buy sight unseen for something like this and hope I like what I get.

Just a few points:
Start-up time is hugely important to me, not a justification for a reason not to go HID. I am constantly going from hi to low and the idea of a turnaround time seems hard to get used to. I guess I would kind of have to see them in action in order to appreciate it. Right now, I envision flicking on my high beams and not seeing anything except a 5 second increase in brightness. I agree, since the low beams are on all the time, this is not an issue, just as you pointed out. But actually, I am not interested in changing the lows but rather the highs - so I can see wildlife off in the distance. And actually, the idea of stray light from HIDs is appealing. You may recall, I stated my 'fogs' on my old Accord were aimed to the sides to see into the bush - more or less. They made a tremendous difference.
The DRL issue. Everybody seems to respond with the ' they use less electricity anyway" argument which is a total narrow-minded knee jerk response. With DRL, there are two lights burning. With headlights on, there are what? 8? When you count all of the lights on the car? Plus, DRL are the law here (should be everywhere). I am concerned about forgetting to turn my lights on every time I get in the car. Something to consider before you state it as so trivial as to be a non issue.
While I have been surfing tonight, I came across the Phillips Xtreme. They look promising. Bulb life is not important to me as ease of changing the bulbs and the brightness they deliver. If I can find them at Wally world I may give them a try first. Thanks for all your help.

I have been happy with Sylvainia Silverstars for years and have never experienced the so called, short life scenario. I started using them when I bought a new 98 Explorer.

I am currently using Sylvania Silver Star Ultra H7 bulbs in both the low and high beam positions and love them. The color on these are very white.

Most of my driving is in extremely rural areas with many critters lounging on the highways at night. Some are the big Mule Deer and some are small rabbits, with everything inbetween. I really don't want to hit anything.

By the way, I put a set of Deer Whistles on every vehicle I own. I'm not sure they are effective but so far I have no reason to believe they are not. Knock on wood.

You cannot go wrong with the Sylvania Silverstar Ultra bulbs and they are reasonably priced.

David<><

This post has been edited by david-paul-1: May 6 2009, 02:50 AM

As noted by MajBach, it's a question for the high beams. When I get around to the conversion, I won't be doing HID on those. Unlike the low beams, my high beam use is too often in "gotta have it NOW" mode, so those will continue to be quality halogens for the time being. At least for my U.S. model, they provide decent performance already.

I had already expounded on this issue in this post in response to your question in your other thread: http://www.hyundai-forums.com/index.php?s=...st&p=229440 Knee jerk I think not. Would it work? Yes. Are you comfortable with doing the conversion to get it to work? That's a question only you yourself can answer.

As for HID conversion on high beam, even though I did specifically recommended against it in my previous post, it should be painfully clear to anyone that have read about HIDs in these discussions that it is not a good idea.

HID is not a miracle drug that cures all automotive lighting ills. It does come with side effects.

Hi,

I am new to this forum because i recently bought a 09 Santa Fe GLS. I have a concern with the low beam headlights that they are not adequate lighting for me. I am older so my eyes are not so good. At night the low beams are not bright enough but the high beams are too bright that they blind other drivers. So I have found these Sylvania Silverstar Ultras, which seamed perfect, so long story short, after looking through manuals and asking the dealer and tons of other people what type of bulb type the low beams are, everyone told me that they were H7's so i figured it would be easy to pop in some ultras and the low beams would be great. But that wasn't the case when I purchased them, the low beams are totally different headlight bulb. We finally figured out that Hyundai changed the bulb type for the low beams (for some strange reason) to H11B bulbs at the tail end of the 09 Santa Fe production. which nobody has ever heard of. So needless to say they do not make the xenon type lights I want. Can somebody tell me if there is a way to get the type lights I want without installing a whole HID kit (do not want to modify my new car too much, and do not want to spend tons of money)

PS: I am also looking to install fog lights, i heard from the dealer that they cost about a grand to install, is there anyway to do it more cheap and easy?

Thanks!

The only thing about the HIDs is that they are blinding for me and other drivers on the road, especially if they are installed wrong, then they go all directions into someones eyes. I also heard that the HIDs will become illegal in January because of this.

If the car that has HID's has projector beam housings (such as our Santa Fe's) and are properly level there should be minimal to no glare on oncoming drivers. People who do not have this type of headlight design have no business installing HID's.

I have not noticed a significant difference in headlight brightness with Silverstar or other 'performance' headlamps. What I did experience however, was a shorter bulb life.. even with careful handling. I have since stuck with the oem replacements. I'd definitely consider the foglight route. I find that it's difficult to see the road on rainy nights, and the stock foglights do a great job of assisting the headlamps. I believe you can also get much brighter aftermarket fog lights, which would definitely help. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with these other than seeing them on friends vehicles.

ah gotcha! but what about the illegalness? they are still going to be illegal in january. and wouldnt these lights burn up your wiring and battery? sorry if i am ignorant i am new to messing around with headlamps. have learned a lot over the last 2 weeks though! (hyundai secretly changing bulb types >=(