As another forum member said, the Genesis is absolutely on the same level as MB, Lexus, Infinity, BMW. I have owned MB's (3 - never again, kept breaking and the maintenance costs are unbelievable) and am now driving a Lexus. Since we need to buy a new car, I have driven every comparable car (such as M35, BMW 5 series, Lexus GS, etc.). The Genesis is just as good as these cars, especially the V8 (nothing like 375hp to perk you up).

All these things that are being said about the Genesis are exactly what people said about Lexus and Infinity - exactly, I was there. Now they are singing a difference song, of course, and it is ironic that Lexus/Infinity is knocking the Genesis (they are running scared. Note: the M35 is being discounted $10,000).

As far as the dealer thing goes, yes it is true maybe right now (actually I was treated the best at the Hyundai dealer curiously) but why am I at the dealer anyway? What, a free bagel every 8 months? I can get free oil changes and car washes at the Genesis dealer any time I want (one customer goes every day!).

I would also add that it is dangerous to say what people will do or not do in terms of buying cars. Much of the decision is emotional. A number of my friends (who all own MB's, Lexus's, etc. in a high end neighborhood) have looked at the Genesis and said "hmmm, maybe I'm a dummy for paying this much when I could have gotten this thing" I'm sure MB said no MB owner would buy a Lexus or Infinity - wrong! In fact, they "ran" to Lexus and Infinity since they were actually angry at MB for their poor quality and maintenance costs. I was one and I know others. I would also add that my wife, bless her heart, is very status conscious and thought that the Genesis would impress her girlfriends (who all drive Lexus's).

Also one shouldn't comment on Genesis versus MB, BMW, Lexus, etc. unless you have actually owned these cars. They are very good cars but not necessarily what people think. I would also say that few MB, etc. owners will admit they made a mistake. They will just quietly switch and give some lame excuse to their friends (my wife liked the color, you know how women are). When I starting looking for a car, the Genesis was only included by my wife and I as a lark, just to say we looked at every car (the Hyundai dealer was next door to the Infinity dealer). We changed our tune in a hurry. I have also dropped the notion of the Genesis to my "country club" buddies and they, amazingly were all very positive and very intrigued. They are just waiting for someone else to be first or second. I would also point out that prestige can back fire if you are seen as someone who overpaid for a lesser car, clearly for the badge. Neighbors know who has money and who doesn't.

With respect to resale, you look at the first and second year depreciation on a $50-60K MB, BMW, Lexus, or Infinity - wow! They drop like a rock, I have looked carefully. I'm seeing used Genesis's (largely repos) holding their value very well. In fact, so well that it doesn't make sense to buy them.

Of course, Hyundai can still blow it by not following through with Dealer upgrades, quibbling over warranty work (ala MB), etc.

Anyway, I've said too much but as I mentioned that cars, for some reason, are an emotional subject.

OMG!!! Not again???
This topic has been beat to death on Edmunds Car Space Forum with absolutely no resolution or even light at the end of the tunnel. All it does is cause animosity between the various posters.
BTW, if you say anything negative about Hyundai or Genesis, be ready to be attacked full force, especially by bobad.
bobad: why don't you just leave it on Car Space? Please!!!!

The commonly accepted "prestige" makes which can be found in every community are as follows: Acura; Audi; BMW; Cadillac; Infiniti; Jaguar; Lexus; Mercedes Benz; Porsche; Saab; Volvo and maybe Lincoln.
The standard makes that produce one or more "luxury" models are as follows: Buick; Chevrolet; Chrysler; Dodge; Ford; Honda; Hyundai; Jeep; Kia; Mazda; Mercury; Nissan; Toyota. May have missed some.
Luxury is what is on the car and it is a very gray area these days and very large. The AMC Ambassador, Chevrolet Caprice, Ford Galaxie 500 LTD and others were considered luxury cars in their day.
Genesis is a luxury car, but no more so than a comparably equipped Taurus, Camry XLE, Avalon, Chrysler 300 and many others. In reality, it is a well equipped, well made large sedan, but it is not in category one above. Wishing it so will not make it so. Maybe in five years, but not anytime soon.

Any list of "prestige" cars versus "standard" is bound to be controversial. Your list is no exception. It is your opinion, and , as you know, everyone has an opinion.
I would drop Audi, and most certainly Saab and Volvo from your list of "Prestige" cars. Not that they aren't good cars, but a Saab, while unique, is NOT a Mercedes. In some communities, the Volve and Saab will have more appeal then in others.

The better question, is " What makes a luxury car a luxury car?"
Is the precieved prestige part of the package? How much do you weight such prestige?
Is luxury simply added insulation, and electronic features? Or, is "luxury" somehow more basic--Is a "luxury" car built to closer tolerances, or with better materials? All cars are a combination of compromises--between weight and strucural rigidity, between cost and quality. In my mind, a true luxury car would be one made with a larger percentage of the compromises going toward the more expensive solutions. For instance, my MB is a W 126 from 1982. That's an "S" class for the uninitiated, powered by a 5 cyl turbo diesel. Feature wise, it is about like most cars on the road today--PS, PW, PDL pwr antena, Pwr seats, Pwr mirrors. But that is not where I see the quality. It represents the end of an era. Its the last car designed by the MB engineers, and THEN priced for sale. All subsequent MB have been designed to fit into a price-point market niche.

The truth is that with few exceptions tolerances in engines and transmissions are the same for all cars. Engines must have bearing clearances within a certain range, or they won't run. Same for piston-to-cylinder wall clearances.
Choice of materials may account for some differences--higher quality cars MIGHT use harder materials in some applications so that the manufactured tolerances are kept for a longer period of time.
Some suspension systems are more costly than others, and might account for some differences, but even McPherson struts can be tuned, and with some variable elctronic controls be very cost effective.

So, how do you define a luxury car? What sets it apart from "ordinary" cars?

I would say it is a premium car, a lot of auto makers will call themselves luxury but very few are. Really they fall in the premium segment.



http://www.brandrepublic.com/InDepth/Analy...premium-brands/

My post was fair and civil. Why don't you go back to Car Space? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/innocent.gif)

My definition of a luxury car or brand is not how well they deal with happy customers but how they deal with that occasional defective car they produce. It has been my personal experience that Hyundai is very lacking here. Not just on the Genesis but on all of their cars. They are a very difficult company to deal with and from the beginning of your problem Hyundai will claim that the car performs as designed. I would check out my video of what Hyundai calls a car working as designed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwcBqI69QM4

All that being said, I would say that the Genesis would have the ability to be a luxury car but it is not because it’s produced by a manufacture that traditionally produces low end vehicles. If you do decide to purchase one I hope for your sake you don’t get the occasional defective unit.

The Genesis Sedan IS a luxury car. I mean cmon 4.6 375 HP V8, 17 Speaker Lexicon System, RWD, Audi Style Multimedia Controller etc.
When Volkswagen released the Pheaton it was considered a luxury car. The few owners I see driving them, I think to myself that yes indeed that is a luxury car even though the VW make isnt.

It goes like this, the Sonata is a Mid-Size Sedan, Azera is considered a near luxury Full Size Sedan, and the Genesis is a Luxury Sedan.


My wife and I were at the LA Auto show last month and I happened to stop by the Hyundai line up. I must say We were impressed with what we saw. I have a question. How much is the Genesis sedan 3.8 costing out the door in the So. CA area?
Charlie

I can't speak for other dealerships, however, I know that at the dealership I work at, we treat Genesis customers the same as any luxury car company treats their customers. For example, Genesis owners are the only customers that get a Genesis when their cars are in for service. If we don't have a Genesis on the lot for a customer to drive, we put them in a loaded Azera or VeraCruz. Hyundai is doing it's best to shock and amaze customers with the way they are treated. The biggest problem for Hyundai right now is figuring out how to get passed the stigma it attatched to itself by making cars for quantity for so long, they have finally figured out that quality is the way to go. Now, showing the customer-base that things have changed is the biggest hurdle.

I can't speak for your area, however, I do know that we sold a base Gen Sedan with the nav package about a week ago for just around $42,000. Jumping up to the V8 model with options can put you in the $50,000 area.

Which list does Bentley and Roll-Royce appear on? Mercedes-Benz S-class would be on the same list but the A/B/C-classes wouldn't.

It seems strange that SAAB and Volvo are on that list, despite being based on GM and Ford platforms which don't appear in the list.

In reality it comes down to vague customer perception which varies widely across international markets, eg some of the Toyota (volume manufacturer) models sold in Europe are sold as Lexus (prestige manufacturer) in North America - only the "better" models are sold as Lexus in Europe.

As stated earlier in the topic, this kind of discussion does not come to any sort of conclusion. Rather, it just creates anger and animosity amongst forum members which is not conducive to the goal of this board. I will be keeping an eye on this topic and it will remain open so long as the conversation is kept clean and fair. One slip and I will not hesitate to lock it up. Personal attacks will not be tolerated, either. Play nice and you've got nothing to worry about.

As you were....(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

You probably meant to say that the Genesis is a luxury vehicle, but that Hyundai isn't a luxury brand.

Conversely, Mercedes is seen as a luxury brand (particularly in the US; not as much in Europe), but some of its offerings (such as the A Class and B Class) are not luxury vehicles (personally, I wouldn't even include the C Class).




Much of the diff. in price is due to the diff. in currency valuation, plus Hyundai is taking a much smaller profit margin on the Genesis than Mercedes is w/ the E Class (like what Lexus did w/ the original LS, the MSRP of the Genesis will rise a bit by bit).




Uhh, many Porsche owner are getting older and no longer want to drive a hard-edged sports car (granted, Hyundai probably didn't get as nearly as many Porsche trade-ins as say, BMWs).



The Genesis is not in the class as the LS460 and nor should it be since the LS is in a higher class (the same class as the Equus).

I don't know about the new E Class, but the general consensus seems to be that the Genesis compares favorable to the Lexus GS (turning into the corners a little quicker and flatter than the GS).



Many former BMW and Mercedes owners would disagree.

At $3k less, the Genesis would significantly undercut the C segment players (3 Series, C Class, etc.) and the Genesis offers considerable more luxury amenities than those compact entry luxury sedans.

As for resale value, the residuals on the 2009 Genesis are holding up pretty well and KBB predicts that the resale value will continue to be close to that of the Lexus GS and significantly more than the Infiniti M (the new M will likely see residuals on par w/ that of the GS and Genesis).

Actually, if MISinformed people would stop trying to debate this issue and cloud people's minds w/ erroneous facts and assumptions, there wouldn't be any need for constant clarification.

Again, the Genesis is a luxury E segment sedan (which is auto reviewers have compared it against the Lexus GS, Infiniti M, BMW 5 Series, Lincolm MKS, etc. in their reviews), it just isn't sold under a luxury marque here in the US (much the same way the VW Phaeton, a $70-100k F segment sedan was).

Think about this.

Until a few years ago, the Lexus LS, GS and IS were sold as TOYOTAS in the Japanese market.

How asinine is it to think that someone driving an LS in the States is driving a luxury sedan, but that a person driving a Toyota Celsior (aka LS) is not?

Furthermore, Toyota in Japan sells luxury vehicles not offered here in the US such as the Crown, Majesta and Century.

Toyota regards the Majesta to be a competitor to the S Class and actually considered it to be a little "higher up" than the Celsior/LS since the Majesta was marketed more as the executive sedan and the Celsior more as the sports sedan (as funny as that may seem).

But the flagship of the Toyota fleet is the Century of which a version the royal family of Japan rides (yes - the RF of Japan rides in a Toyota and not a Lexus).

Basically, Toyota is seen as a full line manufacturer/brand in Japan, just as Hyundai is w/ the Genesis and Equus in Korea.

The same holds for Mercedes in Germany (where it isn't quite limited to the luxury image perpetuated by marketing as in the States) where E Class sedans w/ cloth or pleather seats and rather anemic powerplants roam the streets as cabs and where econobox A and B Class Mercedes can be found.

And let's not forget, the USDM Acura TSX is essentially the same as the EDM/JDM Accord.

And really, just b/c a car/model can be loaded w/ options such as leather, gadgets, etc. (such as the Camry XLE and Avalon) - it doesn't make them a luxury vehicle.

There's much more to a luxury vehicle than that (if that's the case, a fully loaded Sonata and Azera would also be "luxury" vehicles.

For those who have a hard time understanding, let me break it down simply...

Sonata/Camry - mid-sized mainstream sedan

Azera/Avalon - full-sized near luxury sedan

Genesis/GS - mid-sized luxury sedan

Equus/LS - full-sized luxury sedan

Hyundai doesn't currently have a compact/entry level luxury sedan, but are reportedly in the development of one.

It would really help if people had more knowledge of the automotive industry before opining on things they don't quite understand, otherwise, there's the danger of others being misled.




Doesn't make sense.

BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Audi, etc. have all had the same issues (and that even includes Lexus).

Plenty of people have had issues w/ how Mercedes handled trouble spots w/ the E Class, Audi w/ the engine sludge and electronic gremlins and Jag w/ pretty much everything.

This post has been edited by CP1: Feb 6 2010, 05:48 AM

Alrighty....apparently my warning fell on deaf ears. Regardless, this topic has run its course.

Thread closed.