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> 2010 Sonata Hybrid Debut At La Auto Show, new hybrid debut!
Valk
post Aug 21 2008, 08:14 AM
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I wonder what kinda mileage this new Hybrid will get, If it will be better than the Hybrid Camry?

Article stating it is debuting at the LA Auto Show. Perhaps a mid summer launch in 09 for 2010 model???

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=130995

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Sonata06GLSV6
post Aug 21 2008, 09:45 AM
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You can bet it'll be a 4 cylinder version. Using the 2.4L makes sense. Besides, since the engine is essentially shared with Chrysler and Mitsubishi under the World Engine Hyundai could license out the technology later to them if it wanted. I'd expect mileage to be better than the Camry. The current Sonata 4 cylinder gets better mileage than the 4 cylinder Camry. The new 5 speed automatic this year and the Theta II redesign improved things considerably with regard to fuel economy.
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mdale007
post Aug 21 2008, 10:19 AM
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I suspect that the fuel efficiency to be up almost 50% — and emissions to be down 37% — when compared with the regular gas-powered Sonata.

I expect the hybrid to have the a cvt transmission, stop/start mode, curb weight reduction, and the LG Chem litium-ion polymer batteries.

Litium-Ion Polymer Advantages:
Thinness and form factor flexibility.
Higher energy on both a weight and volume basis.
Higher voltage than NiCd or NiMH — fewer cells are required to achieve application voltage levels.
Ability to create battery with large “footprint” for thin, high capacity applications.
Improved safety-more resistant to overcharge; less change for electrolyte leakage.

One would think that the 2.4 theta II would lose displacement either bore or stroke to increase mileage?
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Valk
post Aug 21 2008, 11:34 AM
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Yah I could see them changing the displacemnt and then keeping the horse power around the same as the 4 cyl. I wonder what the price difference will be???
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MABuch131
post Aug 21 2008, 11:48 AM
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It would be nice if it would be a plug in hybrid.
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mdale007
post Aug 21 2008, 01:23 PM
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QUOTE(MABuch131 @ Aug 21 2008, 11:48 AM)
It would be nice if it would be a plug in hybrid.
[right][snapback]184345[/snapback][/right]


The Sonata hybrid will not be a plug-in hybrid according to various sources.
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mdale007
post Aug 21 2008, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE(Valk @ Aug 21 2008, 11:34 AM)
Yah I could see them changing the displacemnt and then keeping the horse power around the same as the 4 cyl.  I wonder what the price difference will be???
[right][snapback]184339[/snapback][/right]


Hyundai wants market share. The Korean's are smart. Expect Hyundai to undercut everyone.
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szwakon
post Aug 21 2008, 02:02 PM
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QUOTE(mdale007 @ Aug 21 2008, 11:19 AM)
I suspect that the fuel efficiency to be up almost 50% — and emissions to be down 37% — when compared with the regular gas-powered Sonata.

I expect the hybrid to have the a cvt transmission, stop/start mode, curb weight reduction, and the LG Chem litium-ion polymer batteries.

Litium-Ion Polymer Advantages:
Thinness and form factor flexibility.
Higher energy on both a weight and volume basis.
Higher voltage than NiCd or NiMH — fewer cells are required to achieve application voltage levels.
Ability to create battery with large “footprint” for thin, high capacity applications.
Improved safety-more resistant to overcharge; less change for electrolyte leakage.

One would think that the 2.4 theta II would lose displacement either bore or stroke to increase mileage?
[right][snapback]184319[/snapback][/right]


They probably are going to adapt it to Atkinson cycle.
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mdale007
post Aug 21 2008, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE(szwakon @ Aug 21 2008, 02:02 PM)
They probably are going to adapt it to Atkinson cycle.
[right][snapback]184377[/snapback][/right]


One could only hope the theta goes atkinson.

For those who are not familiar with Atkinson cycle.

The Atkinson cycle four stroke piston engine in which the intake valve is held open longer than normal to allow a reverse flow of intake air into the intake manifold. This means the compression ratio is smaller than the expansion ratio. For any given portion of air, the greater expansion ratio allows more energy to be converted from heat to useful mechanical energy meaning the engine is more efficient.

The disadvantage of the four-stroke Atkinson-cycle engine versus the more common Otto-cycle engine is reduced power density. Because a smaller portion of the intake stroke is devoted to compressing the intake air, an Atkinson-cycle engine does not take in as much air as would a similarly designed and sized Otto-cycle engine.

Prius, Escape, Camry, Tahoe all use the Atkinson cycle.


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MABuch131
post Aug 21 2008, 03:21 PM
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QUOTE(mdale007 @ Aug 21 2008, 04:15 PM)
One could only hope the theta goes atkinson.

For those who are not familiar with Atkinson cycle.

The Atkinson cycle four stroke piston engine in which the intake valve is held open longer than normal to allow a reverse flow of intake air into the intake manifold. This means the compression ratio is smaller than the expansion ratio. For any given portion of air, the greater expansion ratio allows more energy to be converted from heat to useful mechanical energy meaning the engine is more efficient.

The disadvantage of the four-stroke Atkinson-cycle engine versus the more common Otto-cycle engine is reduced power density. Because a smaller portion of the intake stroke is devoted to compressing the intake air, an Atkinson-cycle engine does not take in as much air as would a similarly designed and sized Otto-cycle engine.

Prius, Escape, Camry, Tahoe all use the Atkinson cycle.
[right][snapback]184393[/snapback][/right]


Thank you, that was great insight.
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craigbrooks
post Aug 21 2008, 03:32 PM
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yeah ^^^ what he said. I had no idea.
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Dennis the Menni...
post Aug 22 2008, 01:57 PM
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If Hyundai uses a parallel hybrid design, the electric motor is permanently joined to the gasoline motor.

Good news: if they go with an Atkinson cycle, the loss in power can be partially made up with the electric motor, which produces full power from startup. It's also the simplest hybrid design.

Bad news: the electric motor always turns the gas engine, so it loses some power. The Civic hybrid uses the variable valve timing to hold the valves open, reducing the drag. Hyundai will no doubt use the same strategy.

I read somewhere Hyundai is using Li-Ion-Polymer batteries. They store much more energy than the Nickel-Metal-Hydride batteries Toyota and Honda use, so Hyundai won't be competing with Honda and Toyota for batteries. Yeah, them Koreans is smart!
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szwakon
post Aug 22 2008, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE(Dennis the Mennis @ Aug 22 2008, 02:57 PM)
If Hyundai uses a parallel hybrid design, the electric motor is permanently joined to the gasoline motor.

Good news: if they go with an Atkinson cycle, the loss in power can be partially made up with the electric motor, which produces full power from startup.  It's also the simplest hybrid design.

Bad news: the electric motor always turns the gas engine, so it loses some power.  The Civic hybrid uses the variable valve timing to hold the valves open, reducing the drag.  Hyundai will no doubt use the same strategy.

I read somewhere Hyundai is using Li-Ion-Polymer batteries.  They store much more energy than the Nickel-Metal-Hydride batteries Toyota and Honda use, so Hyundai won't be competing with Honda and Toyota for batteries.  Yeah, them Koreans is smart!
[right][snapback]184592[/snapback][/right]


Hopefully they will use Li-Polymer or at least Li-Ion batteries. That would really reduce a battery pack size. I really like the Altima Hybrid however her trunk is really small because of the batteries.
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mdale007
post Aug 25 2008, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE(Dennis the Mennis @ Aug 22 2008, 01:57 PM)
If Hyundai uses a parallel hybrid design, the electric motor is permanently joined to the gasoline motor.

Good news: if they go with an Atkinson cycle, the loss in power can be partially made up with the electric motor, which produces full power from startup.  It's also the simplest hybrid design.

Bad news: the electric motor always turns the gas engine, so it loses some power.  The Civic hybrid uses the variable valve timing to hold the valves open, reducing the drag.  Hyundai will no doubt use the same strategy.

I read somewhere Hyundai is using Li-Ion-Polymer batteries.  They store much more energy than the Nickel-Metal-Hydride batteries Toyota and Honda use, so Hyundai won't be competing with Honda and Toyota for batteries.  Yeah, them Koreans is smart!
[right][snapback]184592[/snapback][/right]


It is my understanding that Hyundai is going to use a strong parallel hybrid system. As a result either the battery via the electric motor, or the engine directly to the transmission, or a combination of both, can provide propulsion power.

A strong hybrid offers Idle Stop, Regenerative Braking, Motor Assist, and Engine-Off Drive-EV Mode. A mild hybrid system has an advantage of costing less but saves less fuel compared to a strong hybrid.
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