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WINDOW: Regulator, Motor or Switch

8K views 18 replies 4 participants last post by  arisk 
#1 ·
Car: 2006 Sonata 4 cyl.
Where: Upstate South Carolina, USA
Issue: Passenger side front window working very intermittently
Symptoms: Very strange. The window is currently up. Most of the time neither the drivers side switch nor the passenger side switch will move the window (it's not locked). Randomly, with no particular situation (hot, cold, day, nite, wet, dry, etc.) both switches will work and the window will move. When working, it appears to work well. It's not slow or start/stop but moves smoothly at the same speed as the other windows. Been like this for a long time.

Though this is my 1st post, I did try the search function first. Reading different posts got me more confused. I'd like to figure out exactly what needs to be replaced before tearing into everything. Since this is a daily driver and I do not have a garage, I am reluctant to tear everything apart looking for a problem. I wouldn't think its a switch since both switches either work or don't. I don't think its the motor as when it works, it works fine. I don't actually know what the regulator does. Has anyone else had these exact symptoms and what was the problem? Where is the best place to get replacement parts? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
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#2 ·
When it comes to shooting troubles, some are easy, some difficult, and others anywhere in between. The harder ones are intermittent. When you can't replicate the problem, the cause is elusive. Having blabbed all that, it's difficult to point the finger at the exact cause. However, if the motor is operating the regulator (the cable/slide mechanism that raises/lowers the window) then it may be fair to say to sideline both as the reason. That leaves (imo) something electrical. It sounds to me like (imo) the master switch module on the driver's door. My guess is it's the lockout button. If you're handy with a volt/ohm meter you can easily test. Or pop the passenger door panel off and apply 12V to the motor.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the quick reply. Someone else told me they had a similar problem on their passenger window. They replaced a switch on the drivers side and fixed it. I kinda scratched my head because if the passenger switch does not work (along with the master on the driver side), I was thinking the problem would be over there but you are right, both have to get by the lockout button on the drivers side.
 
#4 ·
(assuming this is the root cause) I had a similar problem on my Durango. Instead of replacing the whole switch module for $50, I simply jumped the in/out wires to the lockout switch. Free. Also you can probably pop off the door panels and still drive the car if needed, while you're locating the problem....Or you can take it to a shop where they'll bang you $150 labor + part$. Have faith Grasshopper...you can do it.....
 
#6 ·
It is only affecting the passenger front window. Rest are working fine. 99% does not work, 1% works. Like I said when it's working, it's quiet, smooth, and at the same speed as the others. It looks like I can buy a master switch housing (includes door pull) for ~$100. Looks like I need to pull the whole door skin off to get to the switches.
 
#7 ·
If the switch is $100, you'd want to make sure that's where the fault lies. If you manage to get the window to go down, does it ever fail to back up again? When the window is closed, can you hear any sound from inside the door when you operate the switch up like you were trying to close the window?
 
#8 ·
It has always gone back up after lowering it when it's working but I don't leave it down long because I fear my luck will change. Every once in a while I will try it and if it goes down, I usually quickly raise it back up in fear it won't. Last night I listened and when the switch is pressed, I hear no sound in the door. Tried switches on both sides - no sound.
 
#10 · (Edited)
You could do that but personally that would be the last step in my diagnosis. It doesn't come across as a motor fault.

I think I would start by removing the passenger door trim panel and check that both wires at the motor have a ground on them when both electric window switches are plugged in. If only one has a ground that eliminates the motor and regulator as the cause.

So, you'd want to connect the red probe of your voltmeter to battery positive and touch the black probe to each terminal at the passenger door window motor harness connector (motor unplugged) and make sure you get 12V on each terminal. This is assuming the fault is present. No point checking while the window is working.

Here is a video showing how to remove the door trim panel : NF Sonata door card removal

Scottie.
 
#11 ·
Eruby, the bottom line for your issue is, it's not a major thing. Resolution is relatively easy. It's just not a this part or that part replacement question.
Autospark:...this sounds like a Doctor's 2nd opinion pursuant to the net end result. (again assuming the stated problem is present) As long as the Pass door panel's off, why not test the motor's operation? Then look back towards the Master switch. (which I believe, based on info provided, to be the problem). However I think we're in agreement, it's simply a "potato, potatoe" thing.
 
#12 ·
why not test the motor's operation?
Diagnosing these types of faults is how I earn my living, so for me it's all about efficiency. The faster I can come up with an accurate diagnosis, the more money I make.

From the symptoms of the fault I try and come up with my best guess as to what the fault will be. In this case my best guess doesn't involve the motor/regulator at this point, so powering the motor wont tell me anything I don't already 'think' I know. That's not to say I wouldn't come back to it at a later point, but for now the motor isn't in my crosshairs and I wouldn't spend the time to power it until I thought it was faulty.

The voltmeter test on the other hand will quickly tell me if my best guess was right or wrong. If the results of the test aren't what I was expecting then I'd need to rethink and come up with my second best guess. If the results of the test are as expected then I've learned 2 things. 1 - it's defo not the motor/regulator that's causing the fault & 2 - I now know which area of the circuit has failed. So, two pieces of information from one quick test. That lets me refine my best guess to narrow the focus of my search for the fault and I come up with a new test. If the results of the next test are what I expected then I refine the guess again and the process repeats like that until I reach a point were there's no need to guess any longer...faults found.

It doesn't matter what the fault is, that's pretty much how I diagnose everything. Guess, test to confirm, refine guess, test to confirm....
With experience, the initial guesses become more accurate. So after 25 years, I'm getting pretty good at guessing :)

Scottie.
 
#13 ·
I Like Scottie's suggestion. In my head, I don't feel like it's the motor or regulator but I'm no expert. I was looking for efficient ways to diagnose the problem. I guess for me efficient means only having to take off one door panel :|. So it's looking like the passenger panel needs to come off 1st. Follow the problem back to the cause. Looks like I'll be doing some of this over the weekend. I'll report back. Thanks everyone for the help and support.
 
#14 ·
If you're going to do the voltmeter test, just remember that you need to remove the passenger door trim to gain access to the window motor, but you will need to have the passenger door electric window switch connected during the test. Depending on the results of the tests you do in the passenger door, it might be necessary to remove the driver door trim too to test that door's switch. I'm sure you'll find that removing the door trim panels is quite easy though, after you've done it on the passenger door.

So, with the trim panel removed, disconnect the 2 pin plug on the window motor. With the red meter probe connected to a 12V supply, touch the black probe onto each terminal on the motor connector. If the wiring between the driver's door switch and the passenger door motor is OK, your meter should show 12V on each terminal. If my 'best guess' is correct you will find only one terminal shows 12V. I'll stick my neck out a little further and say that I think the orange wire will be the one with 12V and the yellow wire wont. If that's the case retest at the input side of the passenger door window switch.

The input side of the passenger door switch is on terminals 6 & 10 (see attached). With your red meter probe still on the 12V supply, touch the black probe onto terminals 6 & 10 of the switch connector. If you only had 1 wire with 12V at the motor but both terminals 6 & 10 at the switch show 12V then it's the passenger door switch that's faulty. If only one of these terminals shows 12V then I'm afraid the next step is to remove the driver door trim to test the output of the window switch on that door.

If you find only one wire at the motor shows 12V and both the switch inputs show 12V, then I would do a bypass test on the switch just to confirm that the switch is faulty.
To do that you need to bridge the two switch input terminals to the two output terminals. When you have the terminals bridged, try operating the passenger door window from the driver's door switch. But don't forget to plug the motor connector back in first.

Let us know how you get on. I really hope my 'best guess' was correct after typing all this in :)

Scottie.
 

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#18 ·
Issue: Passenger side front window working very intermittently
Symptoms: Very strange. The window is currently up. Most of the time neither the drivers side switch nor the passenger side switch will move the window (it's not locked). Randomly, with no particular situation (hot, cold, day, nite, wet, dry, etc.) both switches will work and the window will move. When working, it appears to work well. It's not slow or start/stop but moves smoothly at the same speed as the other windows.
I have the same symptoms (2008 Sonata, front pass. window) and have just dug into it.
I'll offer what I have accomplished so far.

I wanted to rule out power issues as close to the motor as possible and without disturbing any connections (intermittent issue remember).
I inserted sharp pins through the supply wires at the motor.
The motor would not turn and measured around 9V at the pins, both directions.

I removed the motor (3 torx screws) and tried again.
It turned and measured higher. 12V or more.

I rotated the connection to the regulator by hand, and the window would move freely.

I re-installed the motor and now it moves the window, measuring 12V.

At this point, I've ruled out power.
Theories are:
- regulator binding, although I could rotate it where the motor connects.
- motor/regulator attachment point binding and by removal & replacement maybe cleared it.
- weak motor

At this point, I'll just try it a while and see what happens.
If lucky, something was stuck and issue solved.
I'm considering swapping the motor with one from one of the other doors, if compatible (why I'm here searching).
Initial searching indicates they likely aren't swappable.
 
#19 ·
Just a followup to my post above:

I found the right front and right rear window motors were identical (same part number on stickers as well), despite online part suppliers listing them as different.

I've swapped the two motors.
If the issue occurs again, it will either indicate a mechanism issue on the original front right door, or a motor issue now on the lesser used rear window.
 
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