Upgrading Brakes Options

[Jake Jacobson]

Hi folks. Been reading up on some old posts here and saw that there were a couple people who have upgraded their brake system with the R1 Eseries found on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...RK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

I was wondering if anyone else has any input on these from firsthand experience. I am looking to improve my brake system whether it be pads, rotors, pads and rotors to achieve my goal of more responsive brakes. I don't really dig the soft and cushy that my 08 V6 SE provides. It's really strange because when I bought my car in late 07, the first car I test drove which I fell in love with was the exact same specs but the brakes were incredible and sensitive. However that car threw a CEL at the end of the test drive so they brought me out a comparable model, but the only difference was the brakes seemed to be squishier but not bad enough to make me ask them for another car. Now after I got my wife her 09 Sonata GLS 4cyl, I am realizing it was an issue I probably should have addressed. Thus the reasoning for my pursuit of better brakes lol.

Any feedback is appreciated.

[bobad]

Hi folks. Been reading up on some old posts here and saw that there were a couple people who have upgraded their brake system with the R1 Eseries found on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...RK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

I was wondering if anyone else has any input on these from firsthand experience. I am looking to improve my brake system whether it be pads, rotors, pads and rotors to achieve my goal of more responsive brakes. I don't really dig the soft and cushy that my 08 V6 SE provides. It's really strange because when I bought my car in late 07, the first car I test drove which I fell in love with was the exact same specs but the brakes were incredible and sensitive. However that car threw a CEL at the end of the test drive so they brought me out a comparable model, but the only difference was the brakes seemed to be squishier but not bad enough to make me ask them for another car. Now after I got my wife her 09 Sonata GLS 4cyl, I am realizing it was an issue I probably should have addressed. Thus the reasoning for my pursuit of better brakes lol.

Any feedback is appreciated.

The brakes are excellent on the 06 Sonata V6. Stopping distance, modulation, and "feel" are all excellent. Unless you do repeated sudden stops from 75+MPH, there's no reason for an upgrade. Suddenly braking from high speed without first coasting down to a reasonable speed will overheat brakes. It can prematurely wear the pads and rotors, and possibly even warp the rotors. If you have bad braking habits, maybe an upgrade is worth the price. Sometimes a "soft" feel is nothing more than air or moisture in the brake lines.

[KeithW]

That's interesting. One of the things I like best about our '08 Sonata V6 GLS is the
excellent brakes; it has fantastic braking power, IMHO. We traded in our '00 Audi
A6 on the Sonata and the difference in braking between the two is, quite simply
amazing; the Sonata way out performs the Audi in that area. I've never felt a
need for an upgrade in the braking department.

-Keith

[mamamia]

I agree with the OP. Comparing the FEEL of my brakes to my wife's '05 Accord is quite obvious, the Accord feels a lot more responsive or quicker to respond, and firmer to brake. At the end of the day both cars stop well and do the job, but they FEEL quite different.

Yes, couple weeks ago I did drive a loaner '09 and the brakes DID feel firmer....

[Jake Jacobson]

That's interesting. One of the things I like best about our '08 Sonata V6 GLS is the
excellent brakes; it has fantastic braking power, IMHO. We traded in our '00 Audi
A6 on the Sonata and the difference in braking between the two is, quite simply
amazing; the Sonata way out performs the Audi in that area. I've never felt a
need for an upgrade in the braking department.

-Keith

so I wonder if simply bleeding my brake lines would do the trick?

[MiamiLX]

The V6 has upgraded Brakes over the I4. The Brakes, and EBD, along with the ABS are solid and strong. I would visit a Dealer, or a Specialist.

[Jake Jacobson]

The V6 has upgraded Brakes over the I4. The Brakes, and EBD, along with the ABS are solid and strong. I would visit a Dealer, or a Specialist.

This is what I suspected. I should have gone with my instincts in the beggining but as we all know, being at a dealership is a traumatic experience in the first place. I was more worried about getting the lowest possible price I could without losing my mind lol.

I scheduled to get my brakes checked and they said they would probably bleed them at the dealership. SOO I'll have to let you guys know if this is the case. If not and they actually can't find anything wrong, then I will surely be purchasing those R1 rotors and pads. Maybe the non D&S, but I will have to decide when I get there.

[Yiran Hu]

If you are gonna bleed, change the fluid all together. It is a good idea to change brake fluid every couple of years anyways. And the fluid is cheap...

[Jake Jacobson]

If you are gonna bleed, change the fluid all together. It is a good idea to change brake fluid every couple of years anyways. And the fluid is cheap...

I'm hoping the dealer will include that when they bleed them tomorrow.

[Inman Lanier]

There are alot of myths out there about brakes. If your pedal is firm, you don't need to bleed them. Even if you have non-condensable gas in the lines (highly unlikely unless you were doing race track type driving and boiled the fluid) - this will NOT change the effectiveness of the braking. The torque generated by the brakes will be the same, just with a longer pedal.

Brake stopping power with regard how much pedal effort you apply (not how the pedal feels) can vary dramatically from car to car. Even on the same car, you can change this dramatically with different brake pads. Friction coefficients from different stock OEM pads can range from 0.25 to .35 - that's a 40% difference. So, if your brakes feel "touchy" (limited pedal effort for high stopping power [aka torque]) - you have a reasonably high friction coefficient. If it takes a high pedal effort to stop well (meaning you have to stand on the pedal to get them to lock up vs. the prior description), then you likely have aftermarket pads on the car that were not well designed and coordinated with the OEM pads (they have too low a friction coefficient for your system).

The general rule of thumb used to be organic pads would have the higher friction coefficients cold, but limited fade resistance. Then semi-metallics were developed to have better fade resistance as well as comparable hot brake torque developed, the downside was that your first stop or two in the morning may take a good bit more pedal effort to generate satisfactory brake torque since the cold friction coefficient was lower. Now with the advent of ceramics and other mixes for pad compounds, the coefficients are all over the map. Exotic materials have the friction coefficients approaching 0.6, usually with a very limited operating temperature band, however.

I struggled getting my parents' '96 Lincoln to stop after they had the local Firestone do the brakes. You had to stand on the pedal and you still couldn't lock it up. I finally paid $100 bucks for the factory Ford pads and then it was back to good. When those wore out I bought the cheap organics, and it was fine - semi-metallics took too much pedal effort. I just came back from their house yesterday - again - doesn't stop. Quizzing the folks, yup - they had the brakes done and I'm sure it's not Ford pads or organics - I'll have to change again!

So... if the symptoms you sense started with a brake job, my guess is that pads that were put in have a different friction coefficient. As long as you can lock them up or engage ABS w/o having a gorrilla pushing on the brakes, learn to live with it as is or look into changing to a different pad compound. The key is being able to comfortably take the car to maximum brake torque with your right foot. If you have to stand on it, then that's too much effort and you need to change. Other than that, as long as you can lock them up in the dry and have good modulation - don't fret - you're fine.

[jsinton]

You can't bleed the ABS brakes on a Hyundai yourself. You need the Highscan Pro tool to configure the ABS system to bleeding mode. If you forget this step, you could burn up the ABS pressure pump unit.

[Jake Jacobson]

There are alot of myths out there about brakes. If your pedal is firm, you don't need to bleed them. Even if you have non-condensable gas in the lines (highly unlikely unless you were doing race track type driving and boiled the fluid) - this will NOT change the effectiveness of the braking. The torque generated by the brakes will be the same, just with a longer pedal.

Brake stopping power with regard how much pedal effort you apply (not how the pedal feels) can vary dramatically from car to car. Even on the same car, you can change this dramatically with different brake pads. Friction coefficients from different stock OEM pads can range from 0.25 to .35 - that's a 40% difference. So, if your brakes feel "touchy" (limited pedal effort for high stopping power [aka torque]) - you have a reasonably high friction coefficient. If it takes a high pedal effort to stop well (meaning you have to stand on the pedal to get them to lock up vs. the prior description), then you likely have aftermarket pads on the car that were not well designed and coordinated with the OEM pads (they have too low a friction coefficient for your system).

The general rule of thumb used to be organic pads would have the higher friction coefficients cold, but limited fade resistance. Then semi-metallics were developed to have better fade resistance as well as comparable hot brake torque developed, the downside was that your first stop or two in the morning may take a good bit more pedal effort to generate satisfactory brake torque since the cold friction coefficient was lower. Now with the advent of ceramics and other mixes for pad compounds, the coefficients are all over the map. Exotic materials have the friction coefficients approaching 0.6, usually with a very limited operating temperature band, however.

I struggled getting my parents' '96 Lincoln to stop after they had the local Firestone do the brakes. You had to stand on the pedal and you still couldn't lock it up. I finally paid $100 bucks for the factory Ford pads and then it was back to good. When those wore out I bought the cheap organics, and it was fine - semi-metallics took too much pedal effort. I just came back from their house yesterday - again - doesn't stop. Quizzing the folks, yup - they had the brakes done and I'm sure it's not Ford pads or organics - I'll have to change again!

So... if the symptoms you sense started with a brake job, my guess is that pads that were put in have a different friction coefficient. As long as you can lock them up or engage ABS w/o having a gorrilla pushing on the brakes, learn to live with it as is or look into changing to a different pad compound. The key is being able to comfortably take the car to maximum brake torque with your right foot. If you have to stand on it, then that's too much effort and you need to change. Other than that, as long as you can lock them up in the dry and have good modulation - don't fret - you're fine.

That was extremely thorough! You sound very knowledgeable. I never had any work done to the brakes though, they have been the same since I drove it off the lot with 50 miles on the ODO. I was contemplating just changing the pads, but reading up on various brake symptoms, the solution most sources pointed to was bleeding out and refilling the brake line to eliminate any air in them.

[Sequoiasoon]

You can't bleed the ABS brakes on a Hyundai yourself. You need the Highscan Pro tool to configure the ABS system to bleeding mode. If you forget this step, you could burn up the ABS pressure pump unit.

Never seen this before. All my brake bleeding has been with a pressure bleeder and I have used it for MANY bleeds/flushes on Toyota, Hyundai, Ford, Chevy, Mazda and Honda. Key not on, no power to the ABS units to burn out. Flush each wheel until new/clear fluid comes out and good to go.

Maybe other mechanics can chime in differently as this is just my personal experience.