Roll Bars Too Stiff? Options

[Not yet an owner]

Here's a quote out of Wikipedia on the topic of Roll Bars:

Because an anti-roll bar connects wheels on the opposite sides of the vehicle together, the bar will transmit the force of one-wheel bumps to the opposite wheel. On rough or broken pavement, anti-roll bars can produce jarring, side-to-side body motions (a "waddling" sensation), which increase in severity with the diameter and stiffness of the sway bars.

Seems to me that a possible fix for this problem on Azeras is to install an aftermarket roll bar on the front that is "softer" than OEM, not stiffer. Anyone try this fix yet?

[andyman32]

The same folks who complain of the undulating, or 'porpoising' behavior of the suspension also seem to indicate a lack of control in corners due to body lean and/or roll. The anti-sway bar controls body lean primarily (it attempts to keep wheel camber parallel - or, at least, within spec - in hard cornering conditions). If you installed a smaller anti-sway bar, whatever effect might be encountered transmitting wheel shock from one wheel to the other, it's minimal, since it goes through 4 relatively soft nylon bushings before it actually creates force in the lower control arm on the opposite side, and would most likely create even worse 'issues' (complaints / lack of consumer preference) with handling through corners.

Are there any thinner anti-sway bars you're aware of for the Azera? Aftermarket parts are pretty hard to come by these days...

[petergun]

Sway bars are not the issue. It is the springs and shock absorbers (dampers).

[david-paul-1]

Sway bars are not the issue. It is the springs and shock absorbers (dampers).

You are absolutely correct and if "Not Yet An Owner" had done his homework, he would know that we have been kicking this problem around for a number of years.

I happen to be an expert on this issue, like many of us, including you.

David <><

[Not yet an owner]

You are absolutely correct and if "Not Yet An Owner" had done his homework, he would know that we have been kicking this problem around for a number of years.

I happen to be an expert on this issue, like many of us, including you.

David <><

I'm no expert on the subject *yet* ;)...however, I simply did a cut and paste out of Wikipedia on a cause of the "jiggles" in cars. It could be that Wikipedia is wrong. Also, I'm sure it's a complex interaction between shocks, dampers, and sway bar, and possibly structural stiffness, bushings, etc.

Most of this discussion seems to surround problems with front struts. I'd be interested to know if anyone had replaced OEM struts with good Monroe or other third-party units and seen any improvement.

[david-paul-1]

I'm no expert on the subject *yet* ;)...however, I simply did a cut and paste out of Wikipedia on a cause of the "jiggles" in cars. It could be that Wikipedia is wrong. Also, I'm sure it's a complex interaction between shocks, dampers, and sway bar, and possibly structural stiffness, bushings, etc.

Most of this discussion seems to surround problems with front struts. I'd be interested to know if anyone had replaced OEM struts with good Monroe or other third-party units and seen any improvement.

Again.......................I stress to you, do a search on this subject and you will find that we have done all of the things you mention. If you do the search, you will have hours of reading and will have all of your questions answered.

The bottom line is this. The Azera was and is designed for the Korean market and specifically for the drivers in a very large city by the name of Seoul. This car was never designed to be a performance sedan and no matter what mods you do to this car will ever change that fact.

There are many people on this forum who intend on getting rid of their Azera when it is financially possible. Many already have, including me. Except for the suspension, I absolutely loved my Azera but after several high speed scares, I had to let it go.

Yes, I had tried many suspension changes as have most of us who were or are not happy with the Azera handling.

Just do the search. This is the biggest subject with more hits on this forum than any other.

If you want to buy an Azera, do so and experiment for youself. If you are unsure as to whether you should buy an Azera or not, then don't. In any case, you will not get a definitive answer of this forum as to how we can redesign the Azera to be a sport sedan.

David <><

[petergun]

Designers use sway bars so that they don't have to make the springs too stiff and still be able to control body roll in cornering. You are right in the respect that if the sway bars are too stiff, then any imperfection felt on the left side of the car (bump) will be transmitted to the right side of the car, so you might experience a wobbly feeling when driving. However, It has been my experience while researching and through experimentation that the problem is poor valving of the shock absorbers and the subsequent mismatch with the springs. I would even go as far as to say that the shocks used on the Azera wear out prematurely and the springs overwhelm the shocks which cannot control the rebound as well as when new. You can get away with not using sway bars only if the springs provide enough vertical and horizontal stiffness and if the shock absorbers control the compression and rebound in a satisfactory fashion in relation to the springs. I do not agree with the last message which describes that Azera cannot be made into a more sportier sedan. But I can understand why someone would feel that way based on the poor handling capabilities of the Azera when stock. However, think about depreciation of the car (an 06 Azera Limited is only worth $11-13K which is about 60% off when brand new) and decide how long you will keep it.

[Gator65]

The same folks who complain of the undulating, or 'porpoising' behavior of the suspension also seem to indicate a lack of control in corners due to body lean and/or roll. The anti-sway bar controls body lean primarily (it attempts to keep wheel camber parallel - or, at least, within spec - in hard cornering conditions). If you installed a smaller anti-sway bar, whatever effect might be encountered transmitting wheel shock from one wheel to the other, it's minimal, since it goes through 4 relatively soft nylon bushings before it actually creates force in the lower control arm on the opposite side, and would most likely create even worse 'issues' (complaints / lack of consumer preference) with handling through corners.

Are there any thinner anti-sway bars you're aware of for the Azera? Aftermarket parts are pretty hard to come by these days...

I have complained about the "porposing" ride, but never about the body lean or lack of control. My car doesn't have those problems at all. It just bounces up and down too much and too quickly.

[petergun]

Car handling problems are all subjective, to a point. The shock absorbers on the Azera are not valved properly to handle the rebound of various road surfaces, in particular dips at high speed. The shock absorbers are too weak to handle the stiffness of the springs, although I am not certain what the spring rate is for the front and back. The bottom line is that the shock absorbers are not well matched to the springs. Body lean in the case of the Azera is related to the stiffness of the sway bars, whereas the front bar is too stiff and the rear bar is not stiff enough. The current set-up on the Azera definitely favors the grandmother who is going 45 mph and not 1 mile over the speed limit. There is quite a bit of understeer. You could also play around with the stiffness of the sway bar bushings and tighten the handling. Without the sway bars you would have to increase the spring rates considerably and of course get better shocks.

[david-paul-1]

I have complained about the "porposing" ride, but never about the body lean or lack of control. My car doesn't have those problems at all. It just bounces up and down too much and too quickly.

Apparently you have never had to do a high speed defensive maneuver in your Azera. I did have to do that one time in my 2007 Azers and lost complete control of the car temporarily. Only by the grace of God was I able to regain control, but not withoug scaring the daylights out of me.

It happened on an Interstate highway doing about 65mph. Someone on my left drifted into my lane and I had to take emergency measures to get out of his way. When I quickly shifted to my right, the car began rocking from side to side and continued to get worse until I hit the brakes, hard. Fortunately no one was behind me. I thought the car was going to turn over.

Porpoising is in fact, the very element that causes the Azera to lose control at high speed maneuvers.

Be careful, very careful.

David <><

[Not yet an owner]

Well, I'm convinced. The car is great in many ways but the car's unsteady ride just made me too nervous. I decided to skip buying one at this time (I had a used 2008 on a five-day trial from Carmax - what a great deal!) The point about the car's depreciation is also very well taken. It is really incredible to me that Hyundai would go to all of the trouble and expense to launch a product in the US market without thoroughly testing it on US roads to assure that there would actually be a market for it. However, as many have noted, the car simply hasn't been promoted in the US, and apparently for good reason.

Here's wishing you Azera owners well and good luck keeping control of your vehicles at highway speeds. Be safe!

[TLynn]

Although the original poster has moved on, I note for posterity that nobody here has answered his original question: Has anybody tried a weaker front swaybar?

The answer is yes, more or less. Mahout, a very savvy low-budget tuner of suspensions, did extensive experimentations that were detailed on these boards. He reported highly successful results from his mods, which were documented by a dramatic (and really fun) YouTube video of hauling @ss on a racetrack in an Azera. Part of his package of mods was to disconnect the front bar at one side, which had the effect of disabling it.

However, he later reported that he had gone away from this strategy and returned to leaving the front bar in its original state.

As for theory, Wikipedia is right that a stiffer front bar increases understeer (plowing), and a stiffer rear bar increases oversteer (fishtailing). The reason for this is that a swaybar transfers more weight to the outboard tire, overburdening it and making it more prone to slide. Which is one reason why swaybars aren't the whole answer to handling problems.

One other note here: A front STRUT TOWER bar is agreed by several to be a cheap and productive mod on Azeras. This car appears to benefit more than some others from this extra measure to reduce chassis flex.

[petergun]

Mahut had to disconnect the front sway bar because he could not stiffen the rear enough to have a complete rotation of the back during hard cornering. You can keep the stock front sway bar and increase the diameter of the rear sway bar by about 1-2 mm (diameter). Stiffer bushings in the rear should also help with this. The front strut bar is very helpful in the performance aspect but nothing will positively alter your ride better than stiffer shocks/springs. Also, having better performance tires set at good tire pressure should also enhance your ride. So as you can see, there are many variables in getting the suspension right and that is why its no wonder that car designers get it wrong sometimes. Or as in the case with the Azera, never tried at all when trying to use suspension designed for Korea in the US. Just my take on it.