Transmission Shift Quality, How does it compare for everyone? Options

[torscotty]

Hello everyone. Just wanted to know how everyone finds their Santa Fe's transmission shift quality? I find on my Santa Fe Limited that when first starting out (even in warmer weather) that the 2-3 shift can be somewhat abrupt (been like this since new). Once the vehicle has been run this shift is usually much smoother. Also, when driving I sometimes find when slowing to a stop and the transmission down shifts I will get a hesitation on the downshift just before a the vehicle stops.

I am not sure if this is because of the transmission or the drive by wire. I mentioned it to the dealer and he said since the transmission learns how you drive it will adjust its shift points to match your style of driving. So if you suddenly decide to accelerate slower one day (when you are normally a harder driver) the transmission might appear to shift abruptly. I am not sure if this is just dealer fluff or not. For the most part mine shifts smoothly but it does have the odd "off" shift.

Any thoughts? Does everyone find their Santa Fe's shift very smoothly?

[ehkewley]

The dealer might be telling the truth. My last vehicle had "intelligent" shifting, that would adjust to how you drove. The newer models they did away with the "s" sport mode button and opted for the new technique. I think first to second is quick. I find myself easing on the gas pedal because it's too easy to lurch to a start in first. Perhaps it's just me, but I think first is too quick. I have not noticed a hesitation when downshifting, but I'll try to see if I can spot it.

[pauln]

Hello everyone. Just wanted to know how everyone finds their Santa Fe's transmission shift quality? I find on my Santa Fe Limited that when first starting out (even in warmer weather) that the 2-3 shift can be somewhat abrupt (been like this since new). Once the vehicle has been run this shift is usually much smoother. Also, when driving I sometimes find when slowing to a stop and the transmission down shifts I will get a hesitation on the downshift just before a the vehicle stops.

torscotty,

Wow, what a timely post! I got on the board just now to post about exactly the same thing. I just had my '08 Santa Fe Limited AWD in to the dealer last week (11-14-2008) to check out the hard shifting from 2nd to 3rd when the engine/trans is cold. Mine has done it since new (it only has about 8,000 miles on it now) and I do not like the behavior - it seems that something is wrong. However, the dealer put a "flight recorder" on it and ran it cold and warm and said all parameters were in spec. Mine shifts fine once it warms up, but when the engine/trans is cold, the 2nd to 3rd shift is consistently abrupt. As you said, it even does it somewhat when the weather is warm (over 70 degrees F), but the problem gets worse the colder the weather (and therefore the longer the warm-up time for the engine/trans).

The dealer gave me the same baloney about the adaptive transmission and they reset it for me. Did not make a bit of difference (and I drive very easy). I am disappointed that the trans behaves this way, but I am glad that mine (and yours) is not a one-off problem. I wonder if others have noted the same thing? There might be a problem with a limited number of them or they might all behave this way (although I think others would have posted before about it). We will see what others have to say.

Also, I used the "manual" shift a couple of times to verify if the abrupt shift is in the shift logic or in the actual shifting itself. The same abruptness was there whether I let the trans shift itself or if I shifted it - which makes me think it is a quirk of the transmission itself (or a trans problem).

This is a worry to me because 1) I wonder if this is a sign of worse things to come from the trans and 2) even if it is normal behavior, if I ever sold it, anyone test driving it would immediately think something is wrong with the trans.

Keep us informed if you find out anything new and I will do the same.

[pauln]

Hmmm.... searched this board and found complaints for the 2009 Sonata shifting with the 3.3L/5 speed auto. I think that is the same drivetrain as the Santa Fe. Hyundai just released a TSB to update the TCM software to help with the shifting ( http://www.hyundai-forums.com/index.php?ac...st&id=10113 ). Wonder if there might be one coming for the Santa Fe?

[Pinto_Siftbean]

I've only noticed hesitation shifting from 1st to 2nd and that is only when it's cold and I'm not giving it much gas. I'll pay more attention now!

[torscotty]

That's amazing Pauln you have desribed my exact situation perfectly, this is why this board is great for all us owners! I even did the manual test like you did (switching to manumatic) to see if its in the shift logic or the transmission itself and I had the hesitation shifting manually so there is something in the trans that can sometimes be off. It is definitly not something easily re-created though. Unfortunatly I doubt the 2009 Sonata fix would be applicable for us, but perhaps they do have a revised shift logic upgrade that can be applied. The downshift occurs for me from 2-1 when coming to a stop and it happens JUST before stopping completly. I will be inquiring at my next visit to the dealer (who knows how that will go). There is some comfort in numbers though and to hear yours acts the same is somewhat (only somewhat) reassuring.

I would not worry about the resalability as every car has its quirks and this could be one of them, my old Civic was notorious for having a bad shift on the manual shifter from 2-3rd (it was well documented) no fix, just had to be mindful of this shift or it would grind.

I suppose we can also take some comfort in our 100,000km 5 year warranty (I beleive you have more in the US). While this is a great vehicle it does prove Hyundai has a little bit more to go to iron our some of these last bugs in their vehicles, but I am convinced they can get there. Both Honda and Toyota started off in such ways.

[Ken SantaFe]

Since buying my new 2008 Santa Fe on 9/1/08 I've read about these shifting problems that some notice. I've never experienced any of these issues. Perhaps the shift from 1st to 2nd is a bit sooner than some vehicles, but it does not cause a problem, and I certainly do not get any downshift problems. Overall I find my Santa Fe's transmission to be very smooth. Mine has almost 3k miles now.

[pauln]

torscotty,

To answer the other part of your post - I have never experienced any problem with downshifting on my Santa Fe. It also does not shift very quick from 1st to 2nd, but that is a complaint I have seen again and again with this vehicle. I had a '99 Mercury Villager that shifted from 1st to 2nd in almost exactly the same way, so I know it is not necessarily just a Hyundai quirk.

The 2nd to 3rd cold shift problem, has, as far as I know, never been reported before except by us. There seems to be a lot of variablility in how different trans of the same vehicles shift - some report theirs is smooth as can be while others say it is almost unbearable. I think you are correct that Hyundai still has more work to do here. I have a 2001 Honda CRV as well as 1998 Ford Ranger pickup (4 liter, auto) that have always shifted perfectly, so it is disappointing to see an othewise outstanding vehicle like the Santa Fe be marred by trans problems.

I think even when we "manually" shift the Santa Fe some form of shift logic is involved, so it is possible that updated software could make it shift better. I know the Sonata TCM software update would not apply to the Santa Fe, but the fact that Hyundai released the TSB this month at least indicates they are aware of the problems (with the Sonata). I have some hope (not much, but some) that they may issue a future software update for the Santa Fe as well.

Forums such as this have served me well with all of my vehicles (even my Goldwing motorcycle). A few years ago a VW forum ( http://myvwlemon.com ) saved the day for my father-in-law and his 2000 VW Passat. It got the check engine light and the code was for a bad oxygen sensor. He took it to a dealer and they replaced the O2 sensor. In a few days the code was back - he took it back again and they put in another O2 sensor. In a few more days, the code was back again! The dealer gave up. On the forum we found that VW had problems with the mass airflow sensor going bad and causing (somehow) the computer to throw the bad O2 sensor code. We took a chance on a new mass airflow sensor and never had a problem after that.

This post has been edited by pauln: Nov 26 2008, 05:52 PM

[RT Pilot]

I'm a new Santa Fe owner and this is my first Hyundai. I've been lurking on this board since I started looking to buy a Hyundai and I've seen a few threads regarding shift quality. The only Hyundai I've driven is the one I own, so I have a limited experience to draw from, but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents into the discussion. My Santa Fe (2008 SE FWD w/ 3.3V6, build date of 8/21/07) is probably the smoothest shifting vehicle I've ever owned--it's literally difficult to tell when it shifts. I don't doubt though that others are having problems based on what I've read.

When it's apparent that a lot of people are having problems, it would be helpful if you could post info about your vehicle such as date of manufacture, engine size, trim level. This would help others to determine whether the issue could be identified to a certain date of manufacture or PCM software version. This could very well be software related--let me explain why. I bought a 2002 VW Jetta in 2003. It had about 20,000 miles on it when I bought it from auction. I noticed right away that the shifting would be jerky at times and sometimes it would be normal. I eventually got around to taking it to a VW dealer for other service and I mentioned the jerky shifting. Before I got the words outta my mouth the service manager said "it needs the new software". When I picked the car up later, it was a different vehicle--nary a bad shift again and we still have it. I was amazed at the difference that the software made on a piece of hardware like a transmission.

So, based on that experience it's possible that there was a software change at some point in production that only affected a certain group, and that's why I think production dates are important. Hyundai may very well issue new PCM software at some point that will address this issue. It might also be important for people to post their info if their vehicles shift normally, so we can establish at what point things changed for the worse.

Here's the info that should be posted to establish a baseline:

Year:
Trim level:
Engine:
AWD or FWD:
Build date:
Shift quality, normal or abnormal:
Comments:

Also, I ran across a Hyundai technical service bulletin on HMA Service that pertains to shifting quality problems (see attachment). . .if nothing else, it indicates a problem that Hyundai is aware of. It also illustrates just how complex the software is that runs these machines of ours--neat stuff!


RT Pilot

This post has been edited by RT Pilot: Nov 26 2008, 08:31 PM

Attached File(s)

 Santa_Fe_TSB_for_shifting_probs.pdf ( 201.42K ) Number of downloads: 32

 

[pauln]

Okay, I will be the first:

Year: 2008 Santa Fe
Trim level: Limited
Engine: 3.3L
AWD or FWD: AWD
Build date: Aug 07, 2007
Shift quality, normal or abnormal: Abnormal - 2nd to 3rd shift very abrupt when engine/trans is cold; 1st to 2nd shift is somewhat sluggish all the time.
Comments:
Took back to dealer on 11-14-2008. They ran scan on it while driving. Said no problems were found.

[RT Pilot]

Year: 2008
Trim level: SE
Engine: 3.3L
AWD or FWD: FWD
Build date: 8/21/07
Shift quality, normal or abnormal: normal
Comments: One of the smoothest shifting vehicles I've ever owned, although it should be noted that I've only had it about a month and have only about 1200 miles on it as of this posting.

[torscotty]

When it is shifting normally it is very very smooth, its just that first 2-3rd shift that can be troublesome.

I'll bite, here is my info:
Year: 2008
Trim level: Limited
Engine: 3.3L
AWD or FWD: AWD
Build date: 2/20/08
Shift quality, normal or abnormal: abnormal, 2-3rd hesitation when cold sometimes warm (always right after startup), 1-2 sluggish
Comments: Will be taking it in to the dealer and ask them to investigate on next service maintenance.

[torscotty]

Hi Pauln, did you ever get any feedback on your transmission issue? On two seperate occasions the dealer just reset the adaptive learning and (as you already mentioned) it made no difference.

In fact the other day when it was -14C and I started off the 2-3 shift was even more ridiculous. It almost seemed to free rev for a half a second before switching to 3rd (first time ever it did this). The dealership continues on saying they have not seen any problems with the transmission and they have examined it inside and out and checked for any firmware updates (there are none). Unfortunatly it doesn't seem to behave badly whenever the tech is driving it or it really is normal. Again, when it starts to warm up it shifts fine. Did Hyundai ever run severe cold tests on this thing?

For now I am not going to bother anymore, I am tired of taking my Santa Fe in for every scheduled service and having to leave it for a day or more to find out nothing is wrong. I guess I will have to wait until it "might" get worse before anything can be done but perhaps this is just how it works.

Oddly enough our 2003 Sunfire shifts more reliably, I would not say its always smoother but it always shifts the same, and its a LOT less temperamental then this 5-Speed. Which (when its happy shifts great), but when it gets cold or in stop and go traffic or at other random times it throws a bad shift in there.

[pauln]

Hi Pauln, did you ever get any feedback on your transmission issue?

torscotty, no, I had the dealer check it when I first replied to your initial post and (as with you) they said they couldn't find anything wrong. I had a health issue (a hip replacement that was not done properly) that has put the Hyundai on the back burner. However, I found another surgeon who operated on me in Oct 2008 and fixed what the other joker messed up. It took a long time to get better, but I can finally walk again without crippling pain. So, the Hyundai is back on my radar screen.

I also have trouble with mine pulling to the left at cruising speeds (the Hyundai, not the hip (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ). I had it back to the dealer for that and they adjusted the alignment some, but it did not help. So I am going to start back with them on that and then see about the trans.

I will probably end up like you and not bother beating my head against the wall with them about it. However, I want to try a couple more times. I am no engineer (actually, I am a college professor), but I have worked on all manner of mechanical things since I was a kid (I am 52 now), and I can say without a doubt that there is either something wrong with some of these 5 speed automatics or else the Hyundai engineers really messed up big-time when they designed the things. No transmission should ever shift like mine (or yours) just because it is cold out. I have owned some real clunkers including a Ford Pinto, Ford Maverick, and early Ford Ranger - all with automatics. None of them ever shifted any different when cold (and we are talking about nearly 40 year old technology here). The same holds for my current 2001 Honda CRV and 98 Ford Ranger.

Like you, I have had a real taste of it with the extremely cold weather we have had this winter. Most of January the temp never got much above 20F and we had one morning of -16F and another of -20F. Every trip starting out with the Santa Fe just aggravates me to no end when it 'shifts' from 2nd to 3rd and makes you wonder 'what the he11 is wrong with this thing?'.

Your statement, "It almost seemed to free rev for a half a second before switching to 3rd (first time ever it did this)." applies to me as well, at least in part. In really cold weather, mine just sort of sits there for about a second from the time it starts to shift out of second until it engages into third - and when it does engage is when it jerks.

Either it is a fairly rare problem or else it does not bother others as much as it does us. However, I just can't see how someone could not notice it.

One of the big problems we face when trying to get the dealer to diagnose it is that they have to get it on that FIRST 2nd-to-3rd shift in order to feel it at its worst. I have tried letting mine shift the first time, then slow and get it to shift again and keep repeating that. When I do that, it will shift poorly for two or three times, then it starts to get better, even if the engine/trans is still cold.

I started another discussion about it at the edmunch Santa Fe forum and a couple of others have reported the same problem, but without solution, other than having the trans replaced (theirs developed further shifting problems). In my case, I sort of hoped the trans would just go out altogether so they would replace it without question, but on the other hand I am concerned that they would do more harm than good when replacing it by messing up something else during the replacement process.

The only thing I know for sure is that this is my first and last Hyundai.

Thanks for the update and keep us posted if you find out anything new and I will do the same.

This post has been edited by pauln: Feb 7 2009, 01:47 AM

[david-paul-1]

torscotty, no, I had the dealer check it when I first replied to your initial post and (as with you) they said they couldn't find anything wrong. I had a health issue (a hip replacement that was not done properly) that has put the Hyundai on the back burner. However, I found another surgeon who operated on me in Oct 2008 and fixed what the other joker messed up. It took a long time to get better, but I can finally walk again without crippling pain. So, the Hyundai is back on my radar screen.

I also have trouble with mine pulling to the left at cruising speeds (the Hyundai, not the hip (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ). I had it back to the dealer for that and they adjusted the alignment some, but it did not help. So I am going to start back with them on that and then see about the trans.

I will probably end up like you and not bother beating my head against the wall with them about it. However, I want to try a couple more times. I am no engineer (actually, I am a college professor), but I have worked on all manner of mechanical things since I was a kid (I am 52 now), and I can say without a doubt that there is either something wrong with some of these 5 speed automatics or else the Hyundai engineers really messed up big-time when they designed the things. No transmission should ever shift like mine (or yours) just because it is cold out. I have owned some real clunkers including a Ford Pinto, Ford Maverick, and early Ford Ranger - all with automatics. None of them ever shifted any different when cold (and we are talking about nearly 40 year old technology here). The same holds for my current 2001 Honda CRV and 98 Ford Ranger.

Like you, I have had a real taste of it with the extremely cold weather we have had this winter. Most of January the temp never got much above 20F and we had one morning of -16F and another of -20F. Every trip starting out with the Santa Fe just aggravates me to no end when it 'shifts' from 2nd to 3rd and makes you wonder 'what the he11 is wrong with this thing?'.

Your statement, "It almost seemed to free rev for a half a second before switching to 3rd (first time ever it did this)." applies to me as well, at least in part. In really cold weather, mine just sort of sits there for about a second from the time it starts to shift out of second until it engages into third - and when it does engage is when it jerks.

Either it is a fairly rare problem or else it does not bother others as much as it does us. However, I just can't see how you could not notice it.

One of the big problems we face when trying to get the dealer to diagnose it is that they have to get it on that FIRST 2nd-to-3rd shift in order to feel it at its worst. I have tried letting mine shift the first time, then slow and get it to shift again and keep repeating that. When I do that, it will shift poorly for two or three times, then it starts to get better, even if the engine/trans is still cold.

I started another discussion about it at the edmunch Santa Fe forum and a couple of others have reported the same problem, but without solution, other than having the trans replaced (theirs developed further shifting problems). In my case, I sort of hoped the trans would just go out altogether so they would replace it without question, but on the other hand I am concerned that they would do more harm than good when replacing it by messing up something else during the replacement process.

The only thing I know for sure is that this is my first and last Hyundai.

Thanks for the update and keep us posted if you find out anything new and I will do the same.

Pauln,

Make sure your dealer does a four wheel alignment.
David <><

This post has been edited by david-paul-1: Feb 7 2009, 12:54 AM

[torscotty]

Thanks pauln for the detailed feedback and glad to hear you are feeling better.

Your last line summed it all up for me too "The only thing I know for sure is that this is my first and last Hyundai." Like you, I also feel so dissappointed every morning when I go to drive it first thing. I heard fantastic reviews about the Santa Fe and researched the heck out of it (I wish I found this board sooner), but with all my issues (over and above this one) its the last one for me too. I gave them a chance and it doesn't seem they have gotten everything together just yet, which is a real shame because the Santa Fe is a great vehicle besides these issues.

I wrote a long e-mail to Hyundai Customer Service detailing all the problems I have had (and continue to have) saying if these issues continue I will not buy another Hyundai again and inform others of my hassles to allow them to make an informed decision. All they said to me was "Please rest assured that in spite of a manufacturer’s best intentions, defects in material or workmanship will at times surface. Experience has shown that these defects will be apparent relatively early in the life of an automobile and usually within the warranty period." So lets hope our transmissions bite the dust sooner rather then later. But other then that comment they offered no other support so I guess one or two of us walking away from the brand does not mean much to them.

Oh well, I will enjoy the Santa Fe for the purposes I bought it for and start looking for a replacement in 1 - 2 years, which is also such a disappointment because I had hoped to keep it for much longer.

If it gets worse I will bring it back up again with the dealer. Thanks for keeping us updated (even if its only the two of us with issues).

This post has been edited by torscotty: Feb 7 2009, 01:54 PM