Azera Owners: Do You Have Suspension Issues? Options

[andyman32]

The pavement doesn't even have to be the of the undulating ilk. In my car, it is a constant rough ride even on seemingly smooth pavement. Every little imperfection in the road is transmitted and heaven help ya if is a really rough road. It's funny because when the shocks were new, riding over smooth pavement was a delight and the rough stuff was tolerable.

I really have to believe this is some wide swing in quality from day to day on the fabrication line... the way folks who have problems describe it. I know Thor's suspension is a little clunky and Soo Dae's just is not - and neither has any trouble with highway handling, even over relatively choppy concrete highway or in high crosswinds.

Campoly, d bbvhhybfvvvvvvvv55c o you ride with your tires particularly hard? Or have you had them replaced yet? I generally keep our tires pretty soft - 30psi on the Azeras. Sorry, my son typed that ^^^

We drove to Greensboro in Soo Dae yesterday, who has 6200 miles on her now. I really can't tell anything from either of our Azeras but a nice solid, smooth highway cruiser... But that's pretty far afield from what others are describong, I can't believe that THAT drastic of a difference could be accounted for merely as a matter of opinion or perspective. Hmmm.... ??? :-(

This post has been edited by andyman32: Mar 22 2009, 08:17 AM

[campoly]

Campoly, d bbvhhybfvvvvvvvv55c o you ride with your tires particularly hard? Or have you had them replaced yet? I generally keep our tires pretty soft - 30psi on the Azeras.

Yes, I keep them at the recommended pressure. I've tried 38psi before but it only seemed to make things worse. Based on reports like yours and others who are happy with the ride and have no real issues with the ride, I'm also inclined to recon that something went wrong on some cars straight from the factory.

[allmet33]

Update on my suspension issue (creaking strut). It seems the strut wasn't the issue to begin with. I picked the car up yesterday, only to drive away and as soon as encountered some bumps in the road...the creaking noise was back. Turned around and went back, the service manager had the bolts on the top strut mount re-tightend and said if the problem still existed to call him in the morning (they were closing when I picked it up). Get there this morning and I speak with the head of the service department who takes a ride with me to hear the noise for himself. As soon as he does, "Sounds like the upper control arm bushing to me." So...it goes back in next week to get that replaced. I'm pretty sure that would be more along the lines of the problem I'm having as my ride dynamics didn't change at all...just an irritating creaking noise. However, even with the new strut in place...the ride is just as compliant and smooth as it was when I dropped it off.

[andyman32]

If you had a bad upper control arm bushing it would be a heavy CLUNK - metal on metal with a lot of weight behind it - but hey, if they find something wrong, good. Keep us posted!

[4jrfox]

I really dont have the time to write, I'll make this short. I have a 06 5,000 Azera with 16". Thats the problem the 16" tires bottom out every time I hit a speed bump at 15 mph. I read everything everyone complaining on the ultra soft bottoming out ride. Well here was my fix. I put a set of 17" on the car and it has never bottomed out since. These cars were built for 17" tires and not 16" Since I put these on my spedo is correct (changed 4-6 miles per hour). Also it does not bottom out and has firmed up the ride. Now I'm happy. I told my thoughts to my Hyundia dealer and he said "thats interesting". You would have thought they could have figured this out. I'm real happy now!

[allmet33]

If you had a bad upper control arm bushing it would be a heavy CLUNK - metal on metal with a lot of weight behind it - but hey, if they find something wrong, good. Keep us posted!

Yeah, it would be a heavy clunk sound if the bushing were gone or mostly missing. The bushing is still intact, just brittle and stiff. The service director told me that urethane bushings would be the best thing to use, but he's not sure if any exist for the Azera.

[allmet33]

The upper control arm was the culprit for the creaking noise I was experiencing. The strut got replaced initially thinking it was the problem. When the tech looked, the strut was leaking...so it would have been replaced anyway. I got the car back and getting into town where the bumps are, the same noise was back. So...went back and the service director took a ride with me, heard the noise and said it was the upper control arm bushing. Left the car, they replaced the entire control arm and now the noise is gone.

One thing I will say, I've noticed a much tighter steering wheel with the one control arm replaced and the ride seems to be even more compliant than before. Maybe I was just used to how it was with components that have 65K miles on them (and it wasn't bad at all), but I do notice a difference. Now I'm considering getting the other control arm replaced as well.

[andyman32]

The upper control arm was the culprit for the creaking noise I was experiencing. The strut got replaced initially thinking it was the problem. When the tech looked, the strut was leaking...so it would have been replaced anyway. I got the car back and getting into town where the bumps are, the same noise was back. So...went back and the service director took a ride with me, heard the noise and said it was the upper control arm bushing. Left the car, they replaced the entire control arm and now the noise is gone.

One thing I will say, I've noticed a much tighter steering wheel with the one control arm replaced and the ride seems to be even more compliant than before. Maybe I was just used to how it was with components that have 65K miles on them (and it wasn't bad at all), but I do notice a difference. Now I'm considering getting the other control arm replaced as well.

The control arm actually isn't related to the steering - if they replaced the ball joints or the steering rack tie rod ends (which incorporate another set of ball joints) it would certainly have a dramatic effect on the nimbleness / responsiveness of the steering. You WOULD notice a less "floaty", less sloppy feel from new control arm bushings.

It's unfortunate that they had to replace the whole control arm but it is an onerous undertaking to press hardened, heavy bushings into a metal control arm. The metal on that thing was fine but it's probably cheaper to put a whole new OEM unit (including bushings) in, than to pay for warranty labor to remove and replace the bushings.

Anyway, it's good to hear that you're seeing some better responsiveness... I honestly don't understand how worn upper control arm bushings could 'creak' but whatever did it, GREAT, it's fixed! Hooray for 5-yr warranties! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Enjoy your renewed Az, another 65k miles will be nothing on that engine, just getting broken in! It's about time for me to do a similar refresh on my 1996 Vanden Plas... sloppy steering, tramlining, excessive negative camber on the front wheels. I did it on my '96 XJ6 (100k miles) two years ago and I know how dramatically different it is when those bushings are renewed!

[grayknight]

Andy, whatever happen with the green bolt right at the joint between the shock tower and the top of the horseshoe thing you tighten? Did it correct the problem and is still working today?
Grayknight

[andyman32]

Andy, whatever happen with the green bolt right at the joint between the shock tower and the top of the horseshoe thing you tighten? Did it correct the problem and is still working today?
Grayknight

So far it still really seems to have helped. No regression. I'm almost waiting for it to get worse again so that I can see if that bolt has loosened up at all.

[grayknight]

So far it still really seems to have helped. No regression. I'm almost waiting for it to get worse again so that I can see if that bolt has loosened up at all.

So its been a while and it seems to help. I think you should share this findings if you haven't already with the group. I'm not sure it will help all, but it's a starting point for some -GrayKnight

[andyman32]

You guys will be elated to know that I think I have just experienced the "porpoising" suspension effect for the very first time on my way home from work today - 3900 miles. It took just the right speed over just the right broken pavement. The car rose, dipped, then rose again and dipped - 'bounced' - but the feeling was a wobbly type of bounce after the initial dip. I felt the effect 2-3 times very briefly along the same stretch of road.

Note that this is with the 040 front shocks.

I'll try to reproduce this tomorrow.

[Gator65]

Andyman: Sorry to hear you are experiencing what others of us have. My 07 is on its 3rd set of shocks( L041's) and ride is no better than with others. While the porpoising up and down is irritating, my worst problem is the side to side bounce. This occurs when a dip or rise is only on one side of the road and the car bounces up and down very quickly to the ends of the shocks. Will do it two or three times before stabilizing. Other cars bounce once and travel a shorter distance at a more controlled rate.
The porpoising is really annoying on roads where it repeats frequently. Long bridges and concrete roads with poor gaps are examples, but there are others.
It really isn't the shocks or the springs or anything else. It's just a poor design of the various components. District Parts and Service Managers (2) have looked at mine three times and now say it is normal for Azera to do this. Hyundai customer service has closed the case and says that is it.
BTW, USA Today had an article on the Genesis back in October by James R. Healey: Ride felt bouncy on undulating pavement. Sounds like the same problem to me and has kept me out of a Genesis. I did test drive a couple and not impressed with the short ride. Understand Hyundai is revising the Genesis suspension for late 09 and again for 2010 models.

This post has been edited by Gator65: May 20 2009, 02:30 PM

[allmet33]

Andyman: Sorry to hear you are experiencing what others of us have. My 07 is on its 3rd set of shocks( L041's) and ride is no better than with others. While the porpoising up and down is irritating, my worst problem is the side to side bounce. This occurs when a dip or rise is only on one side of the road and the car bounces up and down very quickly to the ends of the shocks. Will do it two or three times before stabilizing. Other cars bounce once and travel a shorter distance at a more controlled rate.
The porpoising is really annoying on roads where it repeats frequently. Long bridges and concrete roads with poor gaps are examples, but there are others.
It really isn't the shocks or the springs or anything else. It's just a poor design of the various components. District Parts and Service Managers (2) have looked at mine three times and now say it is normal for Azera to do this. Hyundai customer service has closed the case and says that is it.
BTW, USA Today had an article on the Genesis back in October by James R. Healey: Ride felt bouncy on undulating pavement. Sounds like the same problem to me and has kept me out of a Genesis. I did test drive a couple and not impressed with the short ride. Understand Hyundai is revising the Genesis suspension for late 09 and again for 2010 models.

It must be something because not all Azeras have this problem. I've got an '06 (built Oct. '05) with over 67k miles on it and I haven't experienced any of the suspension issues folks have been talking about. You can't say it isn't the shocks or springs because you have nothing to go on until you can find some aftermarket components to replace the OEM's with and make that comparison. Right now, the only thing available is a $1200 coilover set up, that replaces the shocks & springs. I know someone that has installed this set up on his Azera and he loves how it rides and says it's much improved over the OEM components, however...he was looking for a sportier ride in doing so. Don't know this would take care of those looking for the norm. There is a coilover set that you can request it in hard, sport or soft, but...don't know which would be the one you would want to go with.

[Gamle-ged]

From a recent news report:

----------

Nationally, Florida tied for third with Montana (76 percent) for roads in good shape, behind Georgia (92 percent) and Nevada (81 percent).

The nationwide average was 51 percent in good shape.

A third of the nation's roads are in poor or mediocre condition, the study showed.

----------

As I've done 90% of my 38,000 Azera miles in Florida, and past experience has shown me that New Jersey roads suck big time (about 3% of the remainder of the miles traveled), I may never know if I'd experience suspension woes!... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif)

[boostedfc3s]

I'm pretty sure 100% of roads in IL and especially my city are in bad shape.

[petergun]

Guys and gals

The wallowing and bouncy ride that you are experience is due to lack of controlled rebound in your shock absorbers (dampers). The springs in the car seem to be adequate although I am not sure what the spring rate is, perhaps 4 kg in the back and perhaps 6 or 8 kg up front. The problem is with the dampers where the shaft compressess too much and the rebound is not controlled adequately. The spring does the job of cushioning the car's up and down motion and the damper prevents the car from oscillating up and down. Thus, the damper's valving is not adequate for the unsprung mass of the car. I also suspect that the springs should be of higher spring rate, such as 6 kg in the back and 10 kg up front. However, going to stiffer springs will not solve your problem (H&R sports springs for example) as your ride would actually get worse. What we need is better dampers that sufficiently control compression and rebound. Unfortunately, the only option is coilovers at this moment. The sports coilovers have a 10/8 kg spring rate and the hard type coilovers have a 12/10 kg spring rate. However, you cannot adjust the damping rate of the coilovers on these so you might still get some bounce although not as much. It has been my experience that a 12 kg front/8 kg back spring rates work best for the car.

[campoly]

Guys and gals

The wallowing and bouncy ride that you are experience is due to lack of controlled rebound in your shock absorbers (dampers). The springs in the car seem to be adequate although I am not sure what the spring rate is, perhaps 4 kg in the back and perhaps 6 or 8 kg up front. The problem is with the dampers where the shaft compressess too much and the rebound is not controlled adequately. The spring does the job of cushioning the car's up and down motion and the damper prevents the car from oscillating up and down. Thus, the damper's valving is not adequate for the unsprung mass of the car. I also suspect that the springs should be of higher spring rate, such as 6 kg in the back and 10 kg up front. However, going to stiffer springs will not solve your problem (H&R sports springs for example) as your ride would actually get worse. What we need is better dampers that sufficiently control compression and rebound. Unfortunately, the only option is coilovers at this moment. The sports coilovers have a 10/8 kg spring rate and the hard type coilovers have a 12/10 kg spring rate. However, you cannot adjust the damping rate of the coilovers on these so you might still get some bounce although not as much. It has been my experience that a 12 kg front/8 kg back spring rates work best for the car.

petergun,

What you say makes perfect sense to me because (in my Azera) I perceive the busy, bouncy, wallowing ride in spades. But what is so puzzling to me is how many people report a "good" ride quality. Wouldn't it be so for all Azera's if the dampers are inadequate? On the other hand, after rereading this thread and others (and professional reviews) pertaining to a perceived problem with the Azera's suspension, there are a great many more folks who perceive a problem than I had originally thought. Some day, after market shocks will be available. Do you think they (after market shocks) will solve the problem?

[petergun]

Well, you have to remember that other people might be riding on streets that do not have too many dips or they might be actually driving slower. The other thing is that different people perceive different situations, well, differently. To someone a bouncy ride might be actually a pillow soft ride. To me frankly, it is poor damping. And yes, shocks that have better control of the compression and rebound would do absolute wonders for the car's poise and handling. The problem is the cost of aftermarket suspension components which for most people is just way too much. I am speaking of the coilovers that you can buy for about 1k. Unfortunately, you cannot buy just better dampers because they would have to be matched up with the right springs (spring rate) to work properly. The Azera is a powerful sedan but the suspension has not been designed well enough to control all that power. In my opinion, spring rates of 10-12 kg up front and 6-8 kg in the back as well as dampers that are stiff enough to control especially the rebound are needed to make this car handle better and become more stable at higher speeds.

I have read some of the entries on this forum that tried to explain away the problem by blaming the design or engineering of the suspension on the Azera. I have to disagree. The biggest problem is the incorrect valving of the dampers and the mismatch of the shock absorbers and the spring (rates). Sometimes, stiffer is better. But then again, you can manufacture a damper that controls rebound and compression differently. If I had to guess, there is something wrong with the valving of the dampers used on the Azera. It could be internal oil seals that fail after so many miles or something similar. I am just guessing on this one but for a damper to be OK for about 5K miles and then start acting like its worn out is unusual.

[Gator65]

Personally I don't think there is any solution and I am sure not going to pay hundreds, much less thousands, to experiment. Hyundai is right about one thing - it is the ride they intended the car to have. Unfortunately, it seems to get worse as the shocks (and springs?) age.
I think many people just are not exposed to the type roads that create the problem or else they accept it.