2014 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4l base. 11000 miles. Returned to dealership now the 5th.. yes the 5th time for same problem--check engine light. First time early December, dealership stated very unusual code we dont see very often. Cylnder 4 misfired 1 time. Plugs pulled checked re-gapped, probably a fluke should be ok.
Second time less then 1 week later same. Code checked the same. Gasoline checked,
Spark plugs rechecked. Everything should be ok.
Third time, less then 1 week later. Kept car for a while. They Called tech support. Suggested
to change injectors and spark plugs which they did.
Fourth time, kept car for more then a week to have someone from corporate take a
look at it. Sent scope down cylinder and found cylinder 4 to have excessive carbon
buildup. Cleaned carbon off, flushed fuel system, changed oil.
Drove for 50 miles now on 5th time. It is at dealership now. Dealership very apologetic
and gives us cars to loan so cant complain about the customer service but my confidence in this motor running 100k is very diminished.
Im no mechanic but as a kid worked on a small block or two in my time. Something obviously wrong with the combustion chamber of cylinder 4 --ring not seat? valves
not seated?--I would assume compression testing came out ok.
Dont know what we are going to do now. Drove last santa fe 100k with no problems and
this one with less then a year on it has been in 5 times now.
About to ask dealership for a factory motor change or find us an equivalent used vehicle
as my trust is this motors lifetime is very low.
Techs are all mystified. Car ran fine. Maybe just a slight cough (mis fire) just before the
engine light goes on and the radio screen gives usual warning then runs ok after that.
this is a real ghost. any of you techs have an idea?? Sorry dont have the
code number.. is it on my invoices??... Will check and see..
I'm no mechanic or techician but my initial thought is . . is it an actual engine hickup (because it appears there are no 'symptoms' or poor engine performance), or is it a problem with the computerized engine fault reporting system itself?
I agree with the list above, but excessive carbon build up and misfires... could the exhaust valves be screwed, or something with the cam? You might also be too rich as well, so the list above would address that pretty good.
But honestly, at this point it would probably be cheaper for them to drop in a new engine than continue on troubleshooting it.
A cel is caused by multiple misfires recorded over a number of rpms, there is a threshold level so a single misfire does not cause a CEL. Many times the CEL will self clear if no more misfires are detected over a set number of rpms.
Assuming the compression readings are good in the cylinder - then I would suspect an intermittent electrical issue - either in the injector circuit or the ignition circuit or rarely but sometimes a fault in the ECU itself. All connectors in these circuits should be checked.
is it possible compression can be maintained if say the compression ring on the cylinder was good but a poorly seated oil ring or a valve seat would cause oil combustion in the chamber..?? Otherwise if it is
electrical in nature can anyone explain to me why there is a carbon buildup on the cylinder.
Sorry for so many ?... Im just fascinated by this while my wife is livid.. lol...
Im no mechanic.. but did build a few small blocks back in the day when life/cars were easier..
lol.. thanks!!
I had the exact same problem bro... The exact same... They checked spark plugs, coil packs and so on. They did mention that if it comes back again that we would need to replace a few things. However, the head mechanic told me that Hyundai has an ECU Update that resolves this issue. It adjusts the parameters for misfiring. They also changed the oil used to Synthetic which runs much cooler for turbo vehicles. Since the exact same code I never got it back again. Also, try running some 93/94 Octane.
Do you know when this came out..?? as of 2 weeks ago someone from corporate came down
to take a look at it.. I would have thunk they would have known about the update.
(????????) Assuming that was the problem.. (???)
It's just speculation on our part, we don't know what the specific code was or what for instance the dealership really found when they scoped the cylinder. You see posts on here where people express frustration with the dealership because they have a problem and the dealer initiates a course of action and usually says "we did this and have now fixed your problem" and in some cases like yours the problem isn't fixed.
I posted a link to an article from JD Powers where engine related problems are on the rise after many years of improving quality. The typical turbo 4 today is fairly complex with all the various electronics and moving parts needed to achieve high power output, reasonable fuel economy, driveability and meet emissions standards.
I almost bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee with it's V6 that uses fairly basic technology to produce more power and gets similar or better fuel economy than the 2.0T SFS. I've had no problems with my SFS 2.0T and there is the 10 yr warranty but as you are experiencing warranty repairs can be time consuming and frustrating.
As some other posters have suggested - time to find out what other recourse you have to make Hyundai fix this issue for you - new engine or new car.
The new misfire logic - if it exists may only mask the problem you are having as yours seems to be specific to a single cylinder which is logging too many misfires so if the new logic raises the threshold before a CEL is triggered that likely won't solve your issue but again just speculation and rambling.
Go back to the dealer and tell them to see if you have the latest ecu update because I have the receipt that shows the error and the bill that shows ecu update and the head mechanic told me that this update resolves the issue by adjusting the parameters for the misfiring etc.. They then switch me over to synthetic and ever since the vehicle drives great. So I would suggest going back to the dealer. Tell them that you are not taking this vehicle until the problem is resolved. Tell them to give you rental and the dealership itself will give you a loaner of the exact same vehicle you will have to sign a few papers but you will have a rental etc... I think what you need is the ecu update that I received because we had the exact same issue. The funny thing with it our engine light was that it stayed on for an entire week and then came off when I got to the dealer lol.. However, the code was stored etc... Then I found out about the update from the head mechanic. Tell the service manager that you would like to have the head mechanic diagnose your vehicle!
It isn't a bad idea to invest a couple of dozen of bucks in a simple OBD 2 WiFi or BlueTooth module that will allow you to read error-codes (and more) from your car. It can help you to get info that you'd otherwise have to rely on from your dealer. And the dealer doesn't always like to be honest because it can cost them money. It's sad, but it is like that. They try to upsell you stuff you don't need and send you home if they can't find a problem quickly and can't bill you for those hours.
It can also save you time because you can make a call and say ; I have this CEL, this is the code from <today|yesterday|last month> and I can see this and that and that.
Then make some photo of the output and send it by email to the dealer so the mechanic can also see that (because the guy on the phone often has no clue about cars, just about answering phones and asking people to 'restart Windows 95, is the problem gone now ?').
Thanks to all (xplicit and others).. My wife called them today... they said they still dont know whats going on ... there solution is calling corporate back and having an engineer come down again.. they are going to replace the head and go from there. I asked for a new motor and they said " well since it is under warranty we have to do what the factory/corporate says to do and we cant replace the motor at this time" .. Which I found funny because I thought...
so "if the motor wasnt covered under warranty does this mean you would replace the motor...???????:grin2:..**** no if not for a price.. lol..
So I will regress and play stupid.. Lets go ahead and replace the head and see what happens. If that doesnt work then I guess you can ship us a new short block and put the head on it for a new motor?... Sounds like an HMO in health car doesnt it??? We cant do anything unless corporate says its ok???
Boo hoo!
Anywho on the responses above I sure as **** hope it isnt something as easy as updates to the ECU as noted above. I would assume there diagnostics would be up to date on that... and if not.. they are replacing a head for something as minor as a software updated problem... ????????? If my dealership cant keep up on the repair trends/maintanance protocols and differentiating between a oil leakage problem/combustion chamber problem/an ECU problem .. then ....................what????
Well for an ECU / firmware update (cars almost are like a router/phone nowadays lol) to work there first has to be one.
Dealers normally like to invite people to come for an update because then they can try to sell you something more. Who knows who falls for that. If the dealer never sees you then he can't earn any money of course.
Second an engine is quite a puzzle. As Stricken stated there are many items to check. And then there is the infomation they don't tell you. Like Porsche with it's 3.4L engine in the enlate 90's. They never apologized to customers and only replaced engines when you'd push them. They had severe issues with shaft bearings, seal leaks, cylinder liner cracks and what not.
The main goal of the car-manufacturer is to maintain it's profitability and therefor Hyundai is no worse or better than the rest. Several people have reported exactly the same issue. Misfirings. Issues with cylinder 2. Cracked porcelain of sparkplugs. There probably is a 'hyundai-issue' and they have no reason to go public saying "yeah sorry we sold 500.000 cars that can break down any minute". As a result they will keep dealers in the dark (also the dealer wants to keep selling Hyundais next year) and apply magical fixed. However ; they will apply magical fixed (wether it is a head replaced) because they don't want to stir up too much trouble of course. No company is waiting for public protests against their cars and/or engines.
Another reason they might want to get that head is to investigate. Just looking at it with a small light is not going to give them an answer WHY this happened. So they can fix the problem in the production-process. Actually that is worth a lot. The big-block hardly needs to be changed for this, the carbon-buildup was in the head and besides that replacing a big-block is way more work of course, though I am not sure if they can replace a head on an SFS without removing the whole engine.
So all in all ; problems can happen. They will be solved and because of all the secrecy it takes time which is ******. If you have a good dealer they give you a decent loaner so missing the car is not that inconvenient and if they are smart they bill Hyundai for that so in the end they don't lose, Hyundai doesn't need to replace an engine or a whole car and who only face a loaner car that never is a nice as your own (unless they gave you a SF V6 LWB as replacement which I doubt).
FYI a brand like Mercedes, VW, Audi all have their issues. You don't really see them a lot, but the forums are full with them. Diesels with common-rail, even in the their high-performing cars, had a shitload of problems. VW DSG tranmissions died by the dozens and resulted in massive recalls. Ford Escape/Kuga's got recalled a few times for things as bad as fuel-lines being able to catch fire.
All in all the amount of issues in the particular Hyundai is not bad >
I'm curious because that was suggested to me to correct the slight misfire/stumble my 2.0t has briefly after a cold start. The regional tech confirmed the issue on my car and corporate suggested the head replacement, but also said the condition would not cause any harm so I can have the head swapped at any time. I'm doubtful that head is the issue, especially given the limited troubleshooting they appeared to do, so I'm hesitant to let them rip the top of the engine off at this point.
Thanks
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