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Old 01-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmr256 View Post
Do you have the 14-inch wheels or 16-inch?

I've notice the 14-inch wheels add more space between the bottom of the car and the ground. My 16-inch wheels makes it hard for me to reach under my car and stick the drain pan under with enough clearance to work the drain plug.
I have the 16" wheels.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:20 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wessay View Post
I am pretty sure my owners manual says to just use a floor jack and a square block of wood to distribute the weight a little bit,...
The owner's manual only has:



This is designed for changing tires, not maintenance work. I haven't seen how the service department lifts a vehicle. Whether they use broad flat surfaces against the uniframe rails, or small pinch adapters on the four pinch welds. (Usually those floor lifts used at garages have flip-up pieces to lift on a very precise location, like a pinch weld. I assume that's what they do.).

The challenge for the home DIYer is

1. Hyundai doesn't give you the pictured jack (designed to lift on the small flat area behind the pinch weld, and also capture the pinch weld for stability).
2. If you need to get under the car, there's no instruction about where to place jackstands. (Anyplace you can put a stand should also be a place you can jack. Hyundai's instruction indicates these are the only allowed jack points, and therefore no stands can be used.).

Another complication is how low the car sits. Without a factory jack, you can't see what your options might be. The front subframe and rear axle's connection to the frame rails seem like good places (with or without wood).

But, I wouldn't put a jackstand on the pinch weld. Therefore, it seems better to jack on the pinch weld (with something to put the pressure on the small flat spot behind the weld) and put jackstands on the subframe and rear axle (closer to the pivot connection to reduce the amount of suspension compression which will occur).

You can probably jack on the frame rails or pinch welds (directly on the seam) without a problem. But, googling indicates its a matter of when, not if damage occurs. For example, jack too high, or the floor jack doesn't roll with the changing angle of the car, and the pinch weld can bend.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:31 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I've put jackstands under the pinch welds of my cars countless times and never bent the weld. You just have to be careful! I'm installing an intake in a week or two and I'll take a short video on where/how to place the jack and the stand.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:26 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I've put jackstands under the pinch welds of my cars countless times and never bent the weld. You just have to be careful! I'm installing an intake in a week or two and I'll take a short video on where/how to place the jack and the stand.
My cautionary example was about a floor jack not rolling, the jacking angle changing, etc. I agree that once the car is level, there's less risk of it sitting on the 1/8" thick seam.

OTOH, that begs the question of how to jack. To get the car up level, you have to jack in the center. I'm not comfortable with those options, especially jacking on the rear axle. If you go up in steps, side to side, that's going to put lateral pressure on the 1/8" thick seam.

When I googled the topic the overwhelming consensus was not to jack nor support on that 1/8" thick seam.

The bottom line is: It's an integral part of the body's "frame." It seems like a significant risk for what benefit? Why try to mitigate the risk with "being careful" when you can use a block of wood or grooved hockey puck to jack on the Hyundai-approved (reinforced) area?

This topic reminds me of the age-old debate about whether to use gasoline as a solvent. The argument in favor goes something like, "as long as you're careful..." However, when something goes wrong it goes *really* wrong.

I feel the same way about using the pinch weld. The moment it folds over, it's kind of a big deal. Why risk it when it takes almost no effort to lift the car differently?
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:10 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I put my regular jack under the pinch weld like someone on here suggested...And soon as it started to lift the weld started to bend....very soft metal. That's why I just bought ramps.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:01 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az2008 View Post
The owner's manual only has:



This is designed for changing tires, not maintenance work. I haven't seen how the service department lifts a vehicle. Whether they use broad flat surfaces against the uniframe rails, or small pinch adapters on the four pinch welds. (Usually those floor lifts used at garages have flip-up pieces to lift on a very precise location, like a pinch weld. I assume that's what they do.).

The challenge for the home DIYer is

1. Hyundai doesn't give you the pictured jack (designed to lift on the small flat area behind the pinch weld, and also capture the pinch weld for stability).
2. If you need to get under the car, there's no instruction about where to place jackstands. (Anyplace you can put a stand should also be a place you can jack. Hyundai's instruction indicates these are the only allowed jack points, and therefore no stands can be used.).

Another complication is how low the car sits. Without a factory jack, you can't see what your options might be. The front subframe and rear axle's connection to the frame rails seem like good places (with or without wood).

But, I wouldn't put a jackstand on the pinch weld. Therefore, it seems better to jack on the pinch weld (with something to put the pressure on the small flat spot behind the weld) and put jackstands on the subframe and rear axle (closer to the pivot connection to reduce the amount of suspension compression which will occur).

You can probably jack on the frame rails or pinch welds (directly on the seam) without a problem. But, googling indicates its a matter of when, not if damage occurs. For example, jack too high, or the floor jack doesn't roll with the changing angle of the car, and the pinch weld can bend.

I wonder about this too. I put the car on jack stands on the exposed metal frame next to the tires. It is the only "safe" place I can jack the car up.

I have not seen my dealership jack my car up so I wouldn't know the ideal locations they use when lifting it up.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:42 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az2008 View Post
The owner's manual only has:



This is designed for changing tires, not maintenance work. I haven't seen how the service department lifts a vehicle. Whether they use broad flat surfaces against the uniframe rails, or small pinch adapters on the four pinch welds. (Usually those floor lifts used at garages have flip-up pieces to lift on a very precise location, like a pinch weld. I assume that's what they do.).

The challenge for the home DIYer is

1. Hyundai doesn't give you the pictured jack (designed to lift on the small flat area behind the pinch weld, and also capture the pinch weld for stability).
2. If you need to get under the car, there's no instruction about where to place jackstands. (Anyplace you can put a stand should also be a place you can jack. Hyundai's instruction indicates these are the only allowed jack points, and therefore no stands can be used.).

Another complication is how low the car sits. Without a factory jack, you can't see what your options might be. The front subframe and rear axle's connection to the frame rails seem like good places (with or without wood).

But, I wouldn't put a jackstand on the pinch weld. Therefore, it seems better to jack on the pinch weld (with something to put the pressure on the small flat spot behind the weld) and put jackstands on the subframe and rear axle (closer to the pivot connection to reduce the amount of suspension compression which will occur).

You can probably jack on the frame rails or pinch welds (directly on the seam) without a problem. But, googling indicates its a matter of when, not if damage occurs. For example, jack too high, or the floor jack doesn't roll with the changing angle of the car, and the pinch weld can bend.
Yeah my bad, it was the shop manual that says to use blocks:



For what its worth my 05' Scion xB's manual said not to jack the car up on the frame rails because they would bend, and I did it anyways with a large diameter jack for the entire 8 years I owned it and never had a problem. Granted its not the most scientific method and is rather anecdotal, but its better than nothing I suppose.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:42 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wessay View Post
Yeah my bad, it was the shop manual that says to use blocks:
I'm pretty sure those blocks have cutouts in them for the pinch weld to recess into, like these floor-lift adaptors.

That's what I was referring to when I described tip-up pieces to jack on a precise location. I've seen shop lifts (which come out of the floor) that have, at the end of each arm, a large metal pad. The end of it pivots up into a 1x4" contact point. For a typical vehicle with a real frame, they'd just swing the arms into position so the large metal pads make contact with the frame (which is typically large). In other circumstances, they flip those small pieces up and get a more precise contact point. (I imagined that could work for the Accent's 1x3" raised, reinforced points behind the pinch weld.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wessay View Post
For what its worth my 05' Scion xB's manual said not to jack the car up on the frame rails because they would bend, and I did it anyways with a large diameter jack for the entire 8 years I owned it and never had a problem. Granted its not the most scientific method and is rather anecdotal, but its better than nothing I suppose.
I think it depends on where you do it, and how large of a block of wood you use to distribute the pressure across the frame rail. If it's done near the connection to the front subframe or rear swing-arm (axle pivot), it's probably not so bad.

But, that begs the question: why do that when you can move it just 12" to make contact with much stronger steel?

Plus, when you add wood, it introduces a point of potential catastrophic failure. There's not a great deal of risk, but it's never the same as metal on metal.

I'm hyper cautious about getting under vehicles. I use four jackstands when I have the front lifted, doubling each side. Throwing anything under a vehicle to catch it if it falls is better than nothing. So, using wood with a jackstand isn't terrible, especially if you threw a wheel, toolbox, cinderblock, etc. under the vehicle to as added precaution.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:20 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mrmr256 View Post
I wonder about this too. I put the car on jack stands on the exposed metal frame next to the tires. It is the only "safe" place I can jack the car up.
It's hard to tell if you mean the solid "metal" part "next to the tires", or the "exposed frame" part which runs the length of the undercarriage (and isn't too far from the tires either).

A unibody car like ours doesn't have real frame rails. It has a "frame rail" molded into the body. They aren't very strong metal. You could easily push through it with a bottle jack or a jackstand. If you use a block of wood it reduces the risk, but it's still not a strong area of the car.

Those rails connect at each end to heavy-gauge steel.

1. On the front is the subframe, a large oval "frame" to hold the engine, connect the wheels (swing arms) and the unibody "frame rails" together.

2. On the rear is the torsion beam axle.

IMO, those are much better choices to withstand weight. Maybe that's what you were referring to.

I've attached diagrams, two of the front, one of the rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmr256 View Post
I have not seen my dealership jack my car up so I wouldn't know the ideal locations they use when lifting it up.
I'm pretty sure they use those slotted blocks to lift at the reinforced "pads" at the pinch-weld locations. That's a really safe place because the slotted block captures the pinch weld, holding the car from sliding left/right.

It's trickier for us because we have to use jackstands. That means we need two locations that can withstand a lot of weight.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:55 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I would not suggest anyone jack rear of car with floor jack in middle of torsion beam. I am not sure it would not bend torsion beam? Just my one and a half cents.
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