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Old 01-27-2012, 04:32 PM   #61 (permalink)
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You'd have to establish the fact that you need one though (Catch Can that is) But if one did need it, they are very effective!
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:45 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Haha. I hope you're not messing with me. I only read the first page and last page and then posted, so I'm sure what I've said was already mentioned ;-).
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:31 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Haha. I hope you're not messing with me. I only read the first page and last page and then posted, so I'm sure what I've said was already mentioned ;-).
No, Im not messing with you, you were right on target!
As far as the "Catch Can", "Puke Tank", "Oil Overflow", whatever you wanna call it, its usually only needed in heavy tuned and or racing applications. It's not something we would need for our cars.
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:52 AM   #64 (permalink)
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You can put the worlds best oil in an engine but the oil filter, in my opinion, will dictate when you have to replace it.

If you want to have longer OCIs, then having a quality filter with the filter capacity to hold more contaminants is how you get there.

Since this is a turbo forum... i'd recommend you guys look into oil catch cans. From what I'm reading, even non-turboed direct injection engines could also benefit from oil catch cans especially if you don't do a lot of driving.

I don't give a flip about a longer OCI. If I HAVE to change the oil every 5K miles, it matters not a flip the quality of filter besides gross mechanical failure for the warranty period. For most people. This thread is about SHORT oci's and why. The REALITY is if you want a warranty, you'd better have evidence you're changing at 5K miles. End of story. But if you drive it hard, you'd better have good oil in it. And a reasonable filter. Look at UOA's on BITOG for DI tubos. Make up your mind that deposits only come from synthetics' additives being volitilized at early miles (even though all the synthetics I have bought for short OCI's have NOACK~10) Disregard all other aspects of oil degradation. Extend said synth OCI's. Enjoy your sludge and deposits and high wear. Why are Subie turbos at 3750 miles OCI as per factory mandate? Folks using "CHEAP DINO" too long...Why are mitsu di turbos (very close cousins to our our engines) showing massive shear, flooding fuel contamination, etc.?

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Old 01-28-2012, 08:57 AM   #65 (permalink)
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I don't give a flip about a longer OCI. If I HAVE to change the oil every 5K miles, it matters not a flip the quality of filter besides gross mechanical failure for the warranty period. For most people. This thread is about SHORT oci's and why. The REALITY is if you want a warranty, you'd better have evidence you're changing at 5K miles. End of story. But if you drive it hard, you'd better have good oil in it. And a reasonable filter. Look at UOA's on BITOG for DI tubos. Make up your mind that deposits only come from synthetics' additives being volitilized at early miles (even though all the synthetics I have bought for short OCI's have NOACK~10) Disregard all other aspects of oil degradation. Extend said synth OCI's. Enjoy your sludge and deposits and high wear. Why are Subie turbos at 3750 miles OCI as per factory mandate? Folks using "CHEAP DINO" too long...Why are mitsu di turbos (very close cousins to our our engines) showing massive shear, flooding fuel contamination, etc.?
It sounds to me like you consider the OCI's listed in the manual to be mandatory rather than recommended. And I assume you feel this way to ensure warranty coverage without a fight from Hyundai in the unlikely/improbable event of engine issue in the future. I don't fault you for that. I feel the same way.

But this idea of oil analysis has definitely opened and changed my mind to the possibility that OCI's could be safely extended past what Hyundai recommends. For the sake of argument, imagine using an oil/filter combination with a 10k mile change interval. Now imagine that you have been doing periodic UOA from Blackstone and they continually advise you that your oil is fine for your 10k drain interval. First of all, would you now have any concerns about the protection your oil provides? Second, if you had some sort of engine failure, all those oil analysis reports would be Plaintiff's Exhibit #1 against Hyundai in a fight for warranty coverage. What could possibly be better proof that 10k mile change intervals did NOT cause the problem!?

If you don't "give a flip" about extending your drain interval, then a UOA is totally irrelevant to you. However, without UOA's from the Sonata 2.0T engine, comparison to other engines is also irrelevant. We all know DI and Turbo is a brutal combination for oil, but comparing Subaru and Mitsubishi to Hyundai is not apples to apples. Let's see what UOA's say about it.

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Old 01-28-2012, 05:53 PM   #66 (permalink)
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<snip> We all know DI and Turbo is a brutal combination for oil, but comparing Subaru and Mitsubishi to Hyundai is not apples to apples. Let's see what UOA's say about it.

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Old 01-28-2012, 06:34 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Lol! Good one!

mmmmmmm......golden delicious!
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:52 AM   #68 (permalink)
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It sounds to me like you consider the OCI's listed in the manual to be mandatory rather than recommended. And I assume you feel this way to ensure warranty coverage without a fight from Hyundai in the unlikely/improbable event of engine issue in the future. I don't fault you for that. I feel the same way.
Hal

when it says "must be performed" you gotta think they know what they're doing and wish to communicate a little more than a recommendation...

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By the way, I got my UOA back but I made a "Cardinal Rule" mistake and I contaminated the sample. I realized this when I saw that the silicone levels were high which typically means dirt getting past the air filter. I captured the oil sample by cracking the oil filter loose and catching the run-off. Even though I wiped off the filter and all around it, the sample was compromised..

Grow a pair and post it as is.

I'm seeing more and more that the loooonnnnnggggg oil CI is becoming verboten for the DI turbo crowd... and why is the UOA having to be doctored? Because the wear is too high. It's silicon, not silicone, and it's a component of the aluminum alloy. Unless you had CHUNKS OF SAND in the oil from around a filter, lol, you prolly haven't CONTAMINATED it lol!
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:47 AM   #69 (permalink)
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when it says "must be performed" you gotta think they know what they're doing and wish to communicate a little more than a recommendation...




Grow a pair and post it as is.

I'm seeing more and more that the loooonnnnnggggg oil CI is becoming verboten for the DI turbo crowd... and why is the UOA having to be doctored? Because the wear is too high. It's silicon, not silicone, and it's a component of the aluminum alloy. Unless you had CHUNKS OF SAND in the oil from around a filter, lol, you prolly haven't CONTAMINATED it lol!
As soon as I get the second UOA I plan on posting both of them if its worth doing so. If they are both exactly the same, there is really no need. Doctored? Im not doctoring anything, why would you say that? Your choice of words is poor unless you are accusing me of trying to be dishonest. Are you insinuating that Im trying to be dishonest about my UOA restlts? I go where ever the truth leads. As Im sure you know, the truth can be tainted more easily in some things than in others. I just want to make sure that the sample is as pure as possible so that we get the best possible information to go by. Admittedly, Blackstone only has a few samples of the"Hyundai" DI Turbo to go by as a national average. The more samples we send in, the more we will all benefit from the information! Should have my second sample results in a couple of days. It may not change at all but I want to make sure that that part (the possibility of contamination) is ruled out. During oil sample testing you are looking at parts per million, it doesnt take much of something to throw it off. Look, if the sample comes back and says change at 3K, 5K, 7K? It doesnt matter to me. The whole idea of this was to find out where our balance is with this newly developed ThetaII DGI Turbo as far as oil change intervals. As stated before, we know of the past DI dirty Turbo engines history. What we dont know yet is how this new variable valve timing engine and the ability to "Wash" the intake valve so to speak is going to pan out. So far from what Im hearing from the Tech Instructors at GM and Ford, its doing well. We'll see. Again, this is not about who's right or wrong, its about sharing information, truthful information that everyone can rely on, backed up with documentation. Thats it, nothing more, nothing less. Oh, an thanks for correcting my spelling of silicon. Making a point to correct ones spelling to put you one up is like throwing stones in your own glass house. Eventually you'll miss your own target of perfection! It will also keep you very busy indeed if your mission is to correct everyones spelling! Or is it just mine? We all misspell words, well, maybe all of us except you. You can exhale now
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:19 AM   #70 (permalink)
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when it says "must be performed" you gotta think they know what they're doing and wish to communicate a little more than a recommendation...
When you say "they know what they're doing," you are 100% correct. They know exactly what they're doing. But you're probably not thinking about it the way they are. They don't mean "must be performed exactly when we say or your engine will blow up." That would be ridiculous. They don't mean "must be performed exactly when we say or your warranty will be voided." That would be false. It's ENTIRELY about warranty coverage. By establishing a schedule for maintenance and using the phrase "must be performed," Hyundai sets the framework for when they will cover problems and when they will fight coverage.

I've said it dozens of times on this forum: if you follow the schedule and have a problem, you will be covered. If you don't follow the schedule and have a problem, you will be in for a fight. You may win, but it will be a PITA and cost you time and money. These are the facts. Folks need to make an informed decision with full understanding of the risks associated with deviating from the maintenance schedule.

The above notwithstanding, the big debate is whether you will actually have problems with your engine if you don't follow the schedule. The fact that Hyundai requires 5K OCI's is not dispositive evidence that longer drain intervals are unsafe for your engine, as you appear to believe. UOA's are going to be the evidence. For many of us, UOA's showing engine protection beyond 5K miles will be enough to make a decision to safely deviate from Hyundai's guidelines.

Hal
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