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Old 05-04-2011, 08:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
fizzybiz
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Hi all

I've been reading quite a few possibilities to check for this problem, but I'll put it out there anyway.

I have a 2001 Accent, manual transmission 1.5L. The lady who had it before me overfilled it and stuffed the charcoal cannister. She had this replaced, but when I bought it she reported that it still had a fuel issue immediately after refuelling. She said it would stall and run rough and hesitate.

After I bought it I took it to refuel and confirmed the problem. I had read that the ECU may be trying to draw fuel through following refuelling, but the new cannister might be messing something up. She used to only drive it commuting distance in a city, so I took it for a long drive. Running at steady cruising state for a prolonged period seemed like a good idea, to allow any ECU learning. This partially fixed the problem! Now, most of the time, I can leave a fuel stop without a 20km drama before the car settles down, although the problem hasn't entirely gone away and it still does play up sometimes.

There's a more pressing problem which may or may not be related, however. When launching from idle, the engine goes through this 2-5 second hesitation of no power at all. If I rev up before letting the clutch out it's ok, but there's a certain minimum revs needed to avoid the problem. This is killing my clutch, and if I get it wrong it sometimes leaves me in the middle of a busy junction with no power for an uncomfortable period! During the hesitation, I've found the best way to force it is to put clutch back in and go full throttle. After 1 second or so the revs come back. The problem is much worse when the air conditioning is on.

So the clues are:
1. the previous charcoal cannister issue
2. the full throttle thing might indicate something with the TPS
3. the worsening of the problem with the a/c on

Things I've tried so far...
1. prolonged cruising; seemed to improve things after refuelling but overall fuelling issues not fixed
2. disconnected the battery -ve and applied brake light circuit to drain ECU capacitor, then left for any power-hold relays etc. then reconnected battery and took it for a normal drive for 30 mins or so. No effect.

...and things I've yet to try (all gleaned from searching this forum)
1. checking / replacing plugs and HT leads
2. checking / replacing o2 sensor
3. checking the TPS plug connections. Checking the sensor itself sounds expensive - would it involve more than standard OBD?
4. checking vac hoses, in particular the hose which draws from the cannister
5. checking alternator (not sure how); the worsening of the problem with the a/c on could indicate low power getting to injectors etc? (bit of a wild guess)

In a former life I was a diesel engine calibration engineer, so I know the tricks which manufacturers can put into ECUs. What I don't know is the tricks specific to this car, which leaves me very blind.

Any help gratefully received.

cheers
Biz
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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85 d-100, 00 chevy impala, 01 hyundai accent
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carlherrnstein
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Welcome
Have you joined http://www.hmaservice.com/ yet there is a lot of helpful info there but, it takes some getting used to.

I had similar issues with my 01 and a pcv valve cured the stalling and a couple other problems I had.

good luck
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:58 AM   #3 (permalink)
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pcronin
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I've got the same car with the same hesitation issue. It really sucks to be in the way of traffic for 5 seconds while you floor the gas and don't move. Does it occur for you only for a cold engine? For me, it happens for around the first 4-5 minutes of driving while the engine warms up. I have let the car sit for a while as I got a 2004 Accent, but it is now begging for attention parked in amy garage. I'll try the things on your list, as it seems you've done your research, and I'll let you know.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
fizzybiz
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Hi, no for me it happens at any time - no correlation to being cold or normal running temperature.

Try googling for the problem not specific to Hyundai Accent - just put in "hesitation from standstill". Other solutions come up which could also offer clues.

Thanks for PCV valve tip, and the hmc site.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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lamebmx
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Well with hmaservice and a decent/basic multimeter you can test all the sensors on your car yourself. all of them pretty much rely on basic electrical principals.

My car was somewhat similar, plugs and wires cured it. PCV is another good one to check/replace because its cheap. dirt cheap / borrowed multimeter will test the TPS for you as its nothing more than a variable resistor. hma has the specifics for max and min, but also make sure as you apply throttle the resistance changes smoothly with the throttle change.

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Old 05-06-2011, 06:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
fizzybiz
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Thanks for the tips. I changed the plugs and leads today, and one lead was busted, so I thought ha hah! I've fixed it! I took it for a test drive with lots of launching from standstill, and it behaved for quite a while. I think it did still do the symptom again though. I think more testing is required to know if it's really fixed or not.

I also tested the TPS on resistance - thanks for that tip too. The resistance changed from 1 k-ohm) to 3 k-ohms on one pin and 3 to 1 on the other pin relative to the ground pin (white wire). It seemed fairly linear. I didn't check the voltage at the harness. I didn't clean it or anything, just refitted it.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
fizzybiz
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OK, the new plugs and leads did NOT fix the problem after all, although they seemed to need replacing anyway. And I still haven't got around to checking out the PCV valve. I also still have some rough running after refuelling.

But I noticed something weird the other day. It was idling away, and I was standing on the fuel cap side of the car. After a short time I heard an air noise coming from the fuel cap, and then a creaking noise coming from the fuel TANK. Every 30 seconds or so, a Pffffft noise comes from the fuel cap, and then straight after that there's so much vacuum being drawn that you can see the fuel tank partly collapsing!! It was idling pretty good during all this. I tried removing the fuel cap, and it made no difference to the idle quality. I also checked the thick rubber o-ring in the fuel cap, and it seemed pretty good.

Does any of this offer any clues? What's going on when it's doing this?


cheers
Biz
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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bluveedub71
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I have the EXACT same car with the EXACT same problem. I work for Kia and weve seen these cars have bad charcoal canisters. Which mine is bad but theres a valve on the side of canister that dosent come with the canister and it may not have been replaced. That will cause buzzing, clicking graoning noises from under the car. My valve filled with charcoal pellets and cause all of this and made it hard to put gas in the car. Sometimes you can tap on the valve and it will improve it for a little while, or just take it off and shake the charcoal out of it. . .
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
fizzybiz
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OK, more digging around in this problem. I checked the fuel filler cap itself, and the valve is opening fine. I even tried a new cap, and the problem is exactly the same.

I've removed and cleaned the PCV valve and checked the plunger works. No effect.

I got a code from a garage - he didn't actually give me the code (I was getting a freebie, and I forgot to write it down, dammit!) but it was something to do with the O2 sensor. At first I thought he was talking about the MAF sensor, but I discovered I don't have one! This led me to check the maP sensor, and I found the O-ring has been severely damaged by installing clumsily. Whether this is creating a leak and leading to the downstream problem in the exhaust, I don't know.

Something I haven't tried is the canister purge solenoid valve. Anybody know anything about this?

I'm still not clear what this periodic (~30 seconds) hard vacuum in the fuel tank is caused by. Is that the purge solenoid activating at idle?


cheers
Biz
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
fizzybiz
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FIXED IT!!

OK, so today I changed the MAP sensor and that didn't solve it. So I took it back to the garage to get the codes, and it had three, all about fuel quality. They cleared the codes, but I never did find out if they stayed cleared. While I was discussing the problem with the garage owner, I told him about the charcoal cannister and the tank collapsing (see earlier posts).

After about 15 minutes' throwing some ideas around he mentioned the purge solenoid valve and I showed him where it is. He took the charcoal cannister side tube off the solenoid valve, and felt it for vacuum. Sometimes there was pulsed vacuum, which he said is as it should be, and sometimes there was just constant vacuum. He said the solenoid was sticking open.

The temporary fix is that I've just left the tube off the solenoid so that it's just sucking on atmospheric pressure if it gets stuck open. The low-revs hesitation problem has disappeared! Happy days!

That just leaves my rear strut rattling around like there's a large spanner loose in there, and the a/c could do with a regas, and it needs an oil change...


cheers
Biz
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